Author: simon
Ventnor Winter Gardens Committee Suspends Jazz Festival Use
Thursday, 7th August, 2008 at 1:36 pm, Isle of Wight
In a surprise turn of events, Chair of the Winter Gardens Management Committee (WGMC), Maureen Cawley, has announced in a letter in the South Wight Chronicle, that they are to suspend confirmation of the Ventnor Winter Gardens as a venue for the 2009 Jazz Festival.
On 14 July, the majority of the WGMC voted to allow for it to be used.
The suspension will continue, “until written notification is received that all Jazz Festival debts have been cleared.” It isn’t obvious who will provide the notification, the Jazz organisers, or those who are currently owed money.
Just 2008 debts
Higher up in the letter Maureen mentions all outstanding creditors of the 2008 Jazz Festival.
Given that in the same letter both ‘all Jazz Festival debts’ and ‘only the 2008 Jazz Festival debts’ are mentioned, it was initially unclear if all of the creditors from 2007 Jazz and the Folk and Blues Festival actually lay in the minds of the WGMC, as all events were promoted by the same people using different companies.
We spoke to Maureen today and she told VentnorBlog that the debts from the 2007 Jazz Festival would not be included, as she says that some of them were going through courts and that they might not be sorted out before the 2009 Jazz Festival. The debts from the Folk & Blues Festival would also be excluded.
With this letter and one from Jonathan Fitzgerald-Bond in the Chronicle this week, it could be a bumper week of sales for the Chronicle!
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August 7th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Well 5/10 for the WGMC but why are the 2007 Festival debts and the Folk/Blues Festival debts not included ? The fact that they are being dealt with by the courts (or awards already made against them and STILL not paid)should be even more worrying.
The WGMC must take a stronger line on this - too many people have lost money and more debts must not be allowed to accrue.
August 7th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Well, I wonder what elicited the change of heart.
Keep up the good work Simon and Sal. Another victory for crusading journalism.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
“she told VentnorBlog that the debts from the 2007 Jazz Festival would not be included”
Why?
“The debts from the Folk & Blues Festival would also be excluded.”
Again why?
How fortunate, as most of the debts are from those two events.
@ steve s “what elicited the change of heart.”
Given the above, I agree with JazzFan, I do not see this as a change of heart, more a sleight of hand.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Hmmm. I see your point.
We obviously need to agitate further here.
August 8th, 2008 at 3:42 am
The debts from the 2008 Festival are only just coming to light.
Island bands weren’t involved because of the problems of previous years and most other bands were non-union because of the MU’s warnings so its taken a while for problems to come to light.
Whilst I believe that some bands were playing free of charge - for the “exposure” - and others were paid directly by the venues (eg Royal Hotel) I am still told that one headline act is owed about £2000.
The 2007 debts were slow in coming to light because Jazz Musicians are a trusting lot and like to believe the best in people… Sometimes we get it wrong.
August 8th, 2008 at 9:30 am
@JazzFan - Yes, we’ve been told of debts from 2008. We’re compiling info and verifying sources currently.
August 8th, 2008 at 9:41 am
“JazzFan Says:
Today at 3:42 am ”
Typical musician! Up when the rest of us are asleep.
LOL
August 8th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Actually an Atypical Musician as I was getting up to start my “day” job in Media Distribution after gigging Thursday evening…
Just re-surfaced now.
I couldn’t believe the letter in CP this morning.
Of course the TC should be looking at the moral aspect of hiring the Winter Gardens to people who leave a trail of debts behind them!!
If the Winter Gardens are paid for in advance they are being paid with money that rightfully belongs to others (ie. the Creditors).
If the Winter Gardens was privately owned and run then it would be different as, ike other pubs etc which claim to benefit from the Festival, they could look on it as purely a commercial event.
Wightlink and the County Press have pulled out of supporting the Festival and I applaud this because their names linked to an event give it some weight as well as reassurance to others investing their time and efforts. the TC and WGMC should follow their lead.
August 8th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
“I couldn’t believe the letter in CP this morning.”
Why ever not, JazzFan?
This is JFB, who supports Ventnor’s most lovable character, Michael Jennings, in his pursuit of getting planning approval for the crudest buildings one is ever likely to see.
Indeed, all 13 members of the Development Control Committee stated that they thought that Mr. Jennings own house was a hideous eyesore.
Not so dear old Jonny boy. Out of step, as usual!
Now he wants “Ventnor residents to email” him to let him know what they would like the TC to do.
I could make a suggestion, but it is probably physically impossible.
I found it an ironic twist of fate that had two planning applications immediately below his tome in the Chronic relating to…….Homelands!
Feel free to object if you wish.
And what about these two “private” sponsors?
Who are they? Or is that yet another case of “It’s for us to know and you not to find out”. Are they ashamed to make themselves known? And if they’ve guaranteed artist fees and hire charges thereby underwriting any deficiencies by the infamous two, should they not settle all their outstanding debts?
I wonder what Jimmy Tarbuck would make of it?
August 9th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Just heard today that a singer is still awaiting payment for the 2008 Festival - at least still waiting for payment after the cheque bounced !!!!!
I am also told that she has refused to return to The Winter Gardens until the debts are cleared.
August 9th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
I have just read the famed letter in the IWCP. “Misleading drivel” would not be anywhere close as an adequate description!
If there are so many people in Ventnor wishing to “benefit” from such a jazz festival why are they not queuing up to sponsor it?
The Winter Gardens committee is playing the “I’m alright Jack” card but, unsurprisingly, not prepared to put up any sort of guarantee.
This seems naive and oblivious to the opportunity it gives to the organisers to attract more “marks” for their ventures by proffering a prestigious venue and mirage of official support.
We have had two (now three?)successive failures where surely the organisers inability to make the events pay must start to be considered more than just incompetence. Could the lawyers amongst us indicate whether or when, on balance of probabilities, effective support for an organisation that openly has failed to pay its legitimate debts turns into complicity with an attempt to defraud?
If such a case were to be made successfully in the civil court, who would be liable for any damages - the taxpayer or individual committee members? (Especially if the committee members had been placed on notice of the likely effect of their actions?)
August 10th, 2008 at 12:20 am
Sorry Guys, but why are you wasting time with these messages? As I said on an earlier blog, why (firstly) are they allowed to keep forming companies without assets, then the money disappears - surely Companies House should be able to stop them - disqualify them as directors or something; and why (secondly)are the police not involved - if money is paid to the companies, then diverted elsewhere and not used for the purpose it was intended - paying artists, venues etc - THIS IS FRAUD. At the very least the Police should be looking at their books - or have those gone missing too!!!!! Why waste time with the civil courts - they have no money, or assets apparently - not that we can find I bet, get the Police involved. Come on Inspector Plod, pull your finger out and get into this mess!!!
August 10th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Terry,
I quite agree with regard to the main protagonists but what is the status of those deliberately turning a blind eye to their behaviour?
There are those who do not think they have any duty to the general public but can capitalise on their favourable economic position for a short term gain and thereby allow others to be misled.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Zoiner,
I agree, but what you will find is once things move from a business complaining/taking court action over debts to Police investigation all politicians and those that sway with opinion will suddenly realise that by allowing these people to hold events may involve them directly or indirectly and will run for cover, or jump up and join those calling for something to be done. I believe that is starting to happen with the Winter Gardens changing their stance, and firmly believe that given a little more pressure they will move again to include the older debts.
I am worried about the post above, number 10, which says that someone from this year has just had a cheque bounce on them - sign of things to come??? If there is anyone owed money from before reading this - speak to the Police as you need to be an injured party to make a complaint!
August 13th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I am glad that Maureen Cawley has stated that a decision will be suspended - it is nice to know there is at least one person of the Town Council and Winter Gardens committee who responds to local people.
Hopefully the “promotors” will be unable to settle the recent debts and everybody will be happy - that includes myself as a local resident, the musicians who gave their time in good faith and everybody else who got ripped off. I promoted bands in Liverpool at various venues over the years, I’ve never witnessed such incompetence at organising the very basics.
To all those who have been affected by these events (which have been wrongly identified as positive for Ventnor,) I suggest we keep up the pressure and lets get rid of the Jazz and Folk and Blues once and for all.
August 13th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
“it is nice to know there is at least one person of the Town Council and Winter Gardens committee who responds to local people.”
Debby Robinson, you mean?
August 13th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Apologies if there is another member of the council and Winter Gardens committee - I have only just returned from a trip to Liverpool visiting my parents as my Mum has been ill.
If Debby Robinson is also supportive regarding this particular issue, perhaps she is another person who can influence some of the other issues raised within my initial comments earlier this month - as in the councils neglect to explore planning applications fully.
Thanks for your advice Sam, I will read further comments with interest.
August 14th, 2008 at 9:05 am
carol wrote “the councils neglect to explore planning applications fully.”
Ah! The dreaded planning issue.
VTC have little, if any at all, influence over planning applications.
Those decisions are made by a few “dedicated” planning officers.
If you have any problems, you should be prepared to litigate, as that will be your only option.
Getting this LPA to “own up” to any mistake is akin to asking WGMC to do the same!
To get back to topic, it seems that the two Town Councillors who voted against the proposal, Debby Robinson and either Buster or Rob, are the Councillors with the integrity one should expect in such circumstances.
September 10th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
I must admit that after speaking to quite a few musicians they were concerned about payment!! I dj’d at the festival in 2006 for free and then they asked me back in 2007, and even though philip and geri whon where the main duo in creating the festival, I think that they should of had an independant sponsor PR and marketing person to handle the affairs, plus the structure was all wrong, too many marquee’s within feet of each other with sound spill,, no definate core visions of the styles of jazz, very diverse.. which OK, it gives the public flexibility in what they want to hear, but the wont turn up to either hear one fusion act, or just to see the jazz dancers.. it needs a message or title that makes the public go yes I’m up for that ie: isle of wight jazz swing festival or the fuzion collective festival or etc etc…. It’s such a lovely island and enjoyed the two years I was there!! I hear people say about Brecon as gone to corporate and losing it’s vision.. but Cheltenham or even the North sea jazz festival do have a great management team, and it works!!!!
September 10th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
I have nothing against Philip or Geri as they do realy love jazz and thats important, but any festival needs to be treated as a business and it’s very hard work, especialy in the current climate with credit crunch and up to at least 40% less attendance with some festivals this year. The isle of wight jazz festival is regarded as one of the finest over the many many years it hosted great stars and hope that someone can step in and invest and raise the profile stronger then ever with clear direction to push jazz for what the public really wants!!