Author: simon
Jazz Festival Debts Still Outstanding
Wednesday, 30th July, 2008 at 6:53 pm, Isle of Wight
Here’s a little recap of events around Ventnor’s Winter Gardens Management Committee (WGMC) and their recent acceptance of the booking to use the Winter Gardens for the Ventnor Jazz Festival 2009.
Maureen Cawley, the Chair of the WGMC, gave assurances on 5 May that the Winter Gardens Committee would only let the Jazz Festival go ahead at the WG if …
1) there was no adverse publicity following this years event
2) and all creditors being paid in full
No adverse publicity
Taking point 1.
Let’s be generous and forget for the moment about the large number of articles that the County Press has written about the monies still owed to those who supplied services to the Jazz Festival.
You can’t really ignore the fact that BBC radio ran a piece, including an interview with Jazz Geri, where Paul Burrows from the Musician’s Union said, ‘Normally when you have rogue promoters, they will disappear with the takings and never appear again but with these people, it’s almost Walter Mitty-ish, they think they can carry on.’
How much worse does publicity have to get before it’s called adverse?
Going on that basis of this apparent disconnection with reality, we wonder if the Winter Gardens Committee think that Jeffrey Archer is an upright fellow?
Point 2 - Debts outstanding
As some of the Winter Gardens Management Committee meetings are held in secret - eg members of the public are kicked out onto the street when it’s talked about - we have no way of knowing what has been discussed during that time.
We did a phone around people who say they’re still owed money by those organising the Jazz Festival.
Before …
Before some people get their knickers in a twist, let us state, again, that, like many people, we’re fully supportive of a Jazz Festival in Ventnor. It’s just that the people who run it should not still have significant amounts of money outstanding to businesses who have provided services to previous events.
Here’s what were were told …
Nick Ward from Island Marquees tells us that they are owed £14,000 and that the Jazzers “haven’t even paid anything. Not even a deposit.”
Island Marquees have already taken the Jazzers to court once and will be going to court again in September, where the action will be against the organisers personally, as previous attempts to get the monies from the Limited companies that were formed to run the Jazz Festival, don’t have any assets, so Island Marquees were left without money.
Philip Oxley of the Melbourne Ardenlea Hotel in Shanklin, who put up some of the festival’s musicians, are owed £2,900. This is up £200 from the original £2,700 owed due to the legal costs of taking the Jazz organisers to court and interest awarded by the Judge, when they had a judgement against the IW Live Music Trust Limited.
Brain Maddern of BKS Security tells us they are owed £3,500 from the 2007 Jazz Festival. Sadly BKS paid all of their staff — all Island staff — who worked at the festival, meaning BKS is out of pocket on that.
Confused at the OK from the Winter Gardens Management Committee, he suggested that they can’t be “doing their checks.”
Colin Hedgeley from the Beacon Magazine told us they were still owed £3,000 for advertising that wasn’t paid for. They also have a court judgement against the Festival. Bailiffs have been round to the Jazzers office in Pier Street, but left empty handed when they too were told that the company didn’t have any assets.
He told us that their “board is unanimous,” in their intention to pursue this debt.
The only company that we didn’t get to speak to was Kingswell who we’re told provided the portaloos, who we understand are owned just under £400.
Totals
That’s £23,800 that they say that they’re owed by the Jazzers.
These debts are just for the Jazz Festival and doesn’t including the monies that are owed from the Folk and Blues Festival that was run by the same people in Pier Street. We’ve heard that there could be another £25,000 is owed from that event.
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It is as though these few people inhabit another planet to the rest of society.
What I find absolutely appalling is that, from your previous reporting, it appears that the Chair of the WGMC negotiated this arrangement with the infamous two on her own and then presented it to the other members who, apart from the honourable Debby Robinson and either Rob or Buster, have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
Don’t these people have any shame knowing that the name of Ventnor is being dragged through the mud YET AGAIN by this scandal.
It is to be hoped that some new names will present themselves for election to the TC next May and who will not be so secretive.
The “Dynamic Duo” at the Jazz Office have caused a lot of hardship to Island Businesses.
Whilst a Jazz Festival (and indeed a Folk & Blues Festival) is a good idea it should not continue with the current organisers.
If the Ventnor Town Council cannot see this I wonder what is being put in front of their eyes to blinker them?
Where has the money gone from these Festivals ? It has always been claimed that they were well attended and many of the costs were met by Sponsors - now the “Companies” running them have no assets. It all seems very strange to me.
Simon,
Do you have, on record, Ms Cawley’s ‘assurances’ of 5 May?
The current position is so far from that one that it warrants further investigation.
As someone frequently ‘excluded’ from Ventnor Winter Gardens Management Committee (VWGMC) meetings I’d ask readers to consider this. Until very recently the first item on the agenda of these meeting (comprised incidentally of the whole Council)was the ‘exclusion of the public’ As this practice has been going on unchallenged for years I recently raised it to be told in no uncertain terms that my presence, or indeed anyone elses, would not be tolerated. The reason given by the Town Clerk and the Mayor was one of ‘commercial sensitivity and confidentiality’. I raised this question again at the annual town meeting to be told by the Town Clerk that it was ‘ a public meeting from which the public are excluded’. Well that clears that up nicely.
So what is it exactly that they are hiding down there? I wrote to the Mayor asking if a copy of the Winter Gardens management plan could be made available - it transpires that there’s no such thing. Which I’m afraid does rather beg the question what exactly are you managing then? Town Councillors do a difficult, thankless task. They’re unpaid (unlike the Town Clerk and Finance Officer)and, as I’m constantly reminded,(most often by the councillors themselves) volunteers. However their most recent ‘in camera’ decision - to allow the promoters to continue - stinks. The way for the electorate, or ‘Joe Public’ as Mrs Cawley fondly refers to them to deal with this is to attend Council meetings and let them know what you think.
I have followed the Jazz with great confusion - why oh why were they allowed to hold 2008? All the debts you show above - they are from 2007, so has everyone from the Festival just gone been paid? I know with company law, directors have protection, but come on!!!! Why are they allowed to register new companies - presumably there will be new “asset-free” companies appearing for 2009! Is it not a fraud issue now and why aren’t the Police looking at this - where has the ticket money, sponsor’s money gone?
Shame I understand that the musicians are still owed in total £25,000 from the Folk & Blues Festival. This woman from The Winter Gardens must be very out of touch!
Personally I am amazed that so many people are worrying about this. It brings a lot of trade to Ventnor, The Winter Gardens have been paid and the people who have not been paid for their services only have themselves to blame. I have put on many events in London and most of my contractors insist on payment up front. There you go, no problem. You get your service and they get paid. Your event does not as well, you make less money. These are very basic business principles. So if all these hotels, portaloo and marquee people acted like any normal business they would have been paid up front.
Further it just seems to me that maybe some people leaving comments have ulterior motives for their damning indictment of the Winter Gardens management and the fact that details are not in the public domain. What business would want their intimate details open for all to see. Want the job yourself maybe or perhaps a friend Mr George? Or, do you just have nothing else to do so waste your time telling people who do something for the good (and they do a lot) of the town how they should do that! I think the WG management and Ms Cawley in particular are to be applauded for their efforts and what they bring to the town. What have you done Mr George, except pick faults? Ummmm very little I assume. Let’s just celebrate the festival and enjoy it. If people want to give their services with no guarantee that’s their business.
“Further it just seems to me that maybe some people leaving comments have ulterior motives”
What? Like you, you mean?
“I have put on many events in London”
Bully for you. Do you want to put this one on?
“What business would want their intimate details open for all to see.” An honest one?
I thought that it was run by “The Friends of the Winter Gardens” according to the TC blurb, says:
“A charitable organisation, The Friends of the Ventnor Winter Gardens has been formed to work with the Ventnor Town Council in managing and promoting the venue”
Although a search of the Charity Commission Register has no entry. Strange that.
What!!? “the people who have not been paid for their services only have themselves to blame.”
Great let’s blame the victim! Where have we heard that before? Poor unfortunate muggers can blame those whose bags they grab! Or worse.
If they had “acted like any normal business they would have been paid up front” What normal business? Does the writer pay his plumber/electrician/gas bill before the job is done or he has received his gas? Most “normal” business runs on the basis of trust and honour and is not reliant upon the gullibility of marks as he seems to consider the ideal.
Strangely (unsurprisingly?) the runners of the festivals expect people to buy their tickets up front but that is true mainly in relation to retail only.
They are “to be applauded for their efforts and what they bring to the town” !! Yes they are bringing a reputation for potential fraud that will drive future investors and artists away. The only way the festival should be countenanced by anyone is for them to demonstrate that all their creditors have been paid and they are financing their ventures properly and not using a multiplicity of shell companies.
This time last year we paid for our tickets and watched a superb concert in St Catherine’s Church and STILL, as I understand it, the artist has not been paid.
I personally will vote with my feet and never attend another concert organised by the persons concerned until there has been full payment to the artist I watched last year.
@isleofvibe: Nice wind up!
apparently its £25K owed to the artists…anybody who leaves people in this situation deserves no support and will ultimutly get what they deserve..a court case or a slap
Do people really believe that because some people have not been paid that this is “bringing a reputation for potential fraud that will drive future investors and artists away”? Surely not! Surely you can see that it may make artists not want to get involved with the jazz festival but to suggest it will tarnish the whole town is ludicrous. Everyone seems to be getting involved with things that have absolutely nothing to do with them. You don’t run the festival, you pay and you attend. You’re doing none of the work behind the scenes so I say again if someone does not get paid up front it is their business and certainly none of ours. If these people insisted on a contract with the organisers they would all be entering the courts to recoup their monies. I tell you what, let’s all keep moaning about them and hope they move on or stop doing the festival all together. Would that make you happy? It’s a good thing for the town and to lose it would be a travesty. If it bothers you that much, just don’t attend and stop lambasting the TC and Ms Cawley for allowing it to go ahead. They do so for the good of the town. The winter Gardens get paid and the town gets a great weekend which brings visitors from all over the country.
@isleofvibe: I’m not sure how much you actually know about the details of this situation.
Several companies _have_ taken the Jazzers to court - and won - but then found that the companies are now shells without the assets to pay the monies outstanding.
We understand it’s estimated that there is approx £50,000 owed from the two jazz festivals and folk and blues festival to date. Many are concerned about how much bigger this debt has to get before people say ‘enough is enough’.
Maureen Cawley herself complained to us last year about how the debts of the Jazz Festival have tarnished the town, when she stated that they couldn’t get acts to play at the Winter Gardens because the response had been ‘Oh no, we’re not playing Ventnor, you don’t get paid there’. Perhaps she is suffering from short term memory loss.
We truly believe that the festival is a wonderful thing for the town - we’ve stated that on VB over and over again - and the coverage that we gave to it earlier this year is testament to that - 14 articles over three days, far more than the reports we’ve done regarding the outstanding debts.
All we’re doing on VB is reporting the facts in the same way that the BBC and the County Press have. Those who are owed money and have been given the runaround are entitled to express their opinions too.
What a sad and cynical world you live in Mr Vibe!
No trust, no responsibility, contracts not being worth the paper they’re written on, no sympathy for artists who’ve been shafted.
I’m tempted to join Craig in congratulating you on the wind-up, but I’m beginning to think you’re for real.
When was a musician everpaid up front for a small event like this…theyr rely on the entrence fee to pay them and Islanders turn up every year and pay their money so that the artists can be paid….or not. Of course this damages Ventnor ..and the entire Island, why would any artist come here to not be paid?
@isleofvibe - Always a highlight when you post isleofvibe.
You say “Everyone seems to be getting involved with things that have absolutely nothing to do with them.” Everyone is entitled to have an opinion surely.
Clearly some people think that consistently not paying people is wrong - others appear to feel that it’s OK, while a small minority (possibly just you) choose to blame the businesses for trusting that the contracts that were entered into should be honoured.
By reading your public posted stance, you would have us believe that you’ve never thought or expressed an opinion about anything that you haven’t been directly involved in. Most unlikely I would suggest.
Mr Vibe’s stance bears an uncanny resemblance to that expressed by our esteemed * chortle * councillor in the Chronicle this week. Yes, Mr Fitzgerald, we’d like to see you standing up for what is right, just for a change!
We heard about these issues before the 2008 festival however our artists were paid on time and the whole amount. We are tentatively hoping this will happen in 2009 however have warned artists of the issues. I understand there is someone new who has been brought in to help the situation. It’s a shame as the musicians enjoy playing at the festival
expect they quite like paying their mortgages too
B - So your artists were paid - how lucky…
But consider this - the money they were paid with belongs to other people, people who have long outstanding debts !!!
2009 will only see MORE debts accrued if this Festival is allowed to continue.
Shame on East Dene for allowing their premises to be used to host the next event.
If the 2009 festival’s at East Dene and associated church, shouldn’t it be renamed the Bonchurch Jazz Festival?
@B
Why so shy? Do tell who were paid on time and the whole amount. Its not a secret is it?
Most unlike the supporters of these two to hide their light behind a bushel.
“I understand there is someone new who has been brought in to help the situation.”
Oh! Do tell. Is it a Russian oil billionaire? C.E.O. of an Icelandic Bank? Le garcon verte?
@isleofviper
“I tell you what, let’s all keep moaning about them and hope they move on”
Amen to that.
Sam and “B”. Come on now, I am not a fan of the Terrible Two and think that the sooner the Police are involved the better, but if some artists have been paid this has to be a step in the right directlion surely? If this is true and not a bit of spin, then come on give details!! There has quite rightly been a lot of emphasis on the appalling way the Festival is run/organised/financed, but if there are any indications that something is happening surely it deserves a mention - if only to encourage some of the other debtors that they may see some money at some stage? This is probably too optimistic I know!!Until all are paid we must keep up the pressure on them, their sponsors and “patrons” and now the venues.
Tel,
All I ask is for “B” to say is WHO have been paid.
Personally, I doubt if anyone has been paid, given the antecedents of these two schmucks
After reading the various comments, I wonder that if there’s such a great line up for 2009 jazz festival, wouldn’t the agents of the artists be aware of such financial problem, or have the organisers paid for everything??? It woud be nice to know if the security firm, hotel’s that put up the musicians, the marquee and PA equipment companies be part of the 2009 festival….. I must admit as I am down for my involment for 2009 I am now concerned on what;s beens said…
Yes - the line up for the festival does look good.
It’s an amazing coup for the Jazz Festival to get the James Taylor Quartet to headline for them.
We’ll try and get in touch with them to find out what the current position is - but it could be a little slow over the Christmas period.