Author: Sally Perry
Live Coverage From Cabinet Meeting (update 7)
6:30 pm Tuesday, 13th July, 2010, Isle of Wight
ShortURL: http://wig.ht/26tx
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VB are reporting live from the Cabinet meeting at County Hall.
Please refresh / reload your browser to see the latest updates. We will endeavour to report presentations and discussions as accurately as possible. Text surrounded by () signifies VB’s comments.
[18:00] Start of meeting
Never seen it so busy in a Cabinet meeting
Point of order – Robert Izzard. Local Statutory – 3 clear working days needed to be given. On the notice board outside the building. Unlawful meeting. No decisions will be valid.
Challenged it three times – only option is to adjourn the meeting.
Cllr Pugh: Take advice
Davina Fiore: You are correct. It’s actually five working days.
Notice was made available to be placed on the board – have been asking for an update to check on board. It’s been in the Library and on the Internet.
“My advice would be to not abandon. Could call another meeting to
validate it after.”
Mr Izzard: “Can not re validate it afterwards. Will be acting invalid.”
Ms Fiore: “Notice isn’t outside building.” As there a number of people here. Would be unfair to cancel it. As it was raised a few mins before 6pm.
Mr Izzard: “The view enshrined in law is that you cannot go ahead with this meeting.”
Pugh: “It’s your view that we cannot, but we will press ahead with that.”
[18.23] Public questions
Appendix – £60k cut on buses. I use buses every day. Elderly also dependent. Quoted from IW bus users. Why is there no discussions with interested parties in this?
Implication – Winter walking festival will be affected.
Ask you to postpone decision until consultation.
Cllr Giles – consulted local councils. Hope to announce what will
happen with tender in next few days.
Cllr Pugh to leave (discussion of fire service). Cllr Brown to take over.
David Wood (Woods trade supplies). Was Shanklin fire service. Worried about cover. Blue light runs worry me – 4:30 runs from Sandown to Heath Road. Blue light runs are 13m 26s now – how can it be done in 8mins by the day crew?
Cllr Abrahams – I’m confident info in the report is accurate
Q: How can you make a decision if the numbers don’t add up?
Cllr Brown: We will debate it tonight. Had two questions.
–End of public questions
Cllr Abrahams : Fire service. Funding for new Lake station isn’t available. New equipment for efficient. Confident that these are appropriate. Any downsides to closing Shanklin are out-weighed by benefits to all. Sometime retained firefighters are available because of their jobs
Cllr Bingham: We challenged hard and I’ve been convinced.
Cllr Cousins: I support Cllr Abrahams.
Cllr Mazillius: I agree, but would like to add – members have agonised over this. We received representations from Fire officer in the field. They have all been answered. I feel happy to support this.
Cllr Brown: A serious issue. Looked at this letter in seriousness. Going to invite the Director of service.
Stuart Love: 2.5 year process to get us to here. Satisfied in the data and the results. Short answer – yes
[18:31] Update 1
Written Q: Cllr Down: If Shanklin is close, what happens if Sandown is on a call.
Cllr Abrahams: Newport or Ventnor
Cllr Williams: Speaking as a councillor in Shanklin – Everyone in this room wants a new station. Bay station was supposed to be built before closing. How far have we gone to getting the money for Lake? Shanklin is hard to get through because it’s so narrow.
Shanklin for night only?
Cllr Abraham: A: Nothing would please me more to say we have the money. This isn’t about saving money.
I shouldn’t have said ‘underpinned’ as I did in the CP.
[18:40] Update 2
Cllr Wright: we have spoken to the police about ‘their property portfolio’. Might be of use in the future, but no promises.
Cllr Barry: Q: Wouldn’t have been better to spend the Millions wasted on the Undercliff enquiry?
(Here, here from audience)
Cllr Abrahams: Undercliff useful in terms of how we spend money in the future
Vote: 7 (approved)
(More than half the office has gone)
Cllr Bingham – I’ve been on holiday. We plan to have a mid-term budget in Sept. Funding is being cut. We are going through a very difficult time. The pain will have to be spread equally among every one.
22 Oct – National Spending Review. 25% £5.5m savings needed every year. A huge challenge
(Pugh back in chair)
We must start a serious look at the structure of the council and staffing levels.
Department by dept, line by line. A serious rank and file examination. Ask you to agree additional savings in Appendix 5.
[18:51] Update 3
Cllr Pugh: Have asked for a summary of what it’s about
Need to see this in a wider national context
Paper C to be read with appendix 5
Asking officer to look into charging for home care, increasing meals on wheels costs, review of free personal home care
Post-16 transport should be reviewed.
Discretionary faith transfer(?)
Buses reductions should only be £60k
Student rider – can’t be sustained.
Awaiting for first quarter car parking figures before making decisions.
Need to decide where the fire call centre sits – on Island or off.
Section 7 has the ‘more radical’ changes – eg external companies providing services.
Cllr Giles: Student Rider has fall “significantly” in previous years. Southern Vectis (SV) have chosen to appeal the decision, could be up to £1/2m for us to pay out – unbudgeted. SV provides cheaper alternative to Student Riders.
Reports in the press have over-egged the pudding. Not wholesale cutting of routes.
Cllr Brown: We pay SV lots of money. How much do we pay?
Cllr Giles: £7.9m public funding to SV? Wight bus – £1-1.5m year. Electorate of 110k
Cllr Brown: It’s a number that has to be compared against others.
[19:09] Update 4
Cllr Bingham: Business subsidy – £80-90 for every council tax.
Cllr Mazillius: 11% of council tax.
(Amazing that all of these figures have been whipped up!)
Cllr Barry: Funny to be lectured by Cllr Mazillius – he’s been in and out of bed with every party on the Island!
Cllr Bacon’s question by Cllr Welsford: “What efforts are being made and what specific steps are being taken to protect and retain rural bus services running with appropriate frequency particularly in those areas where, in addition to providing a basic service, the routes also support areas with a large proportion of elderly residents, they allow children to attend after hours activities …. a car when on holiday. Is not any reduction
in services which generate such benefits a false economy?”
Cllr Giles: £550K funds from IWC Mostly lifeline services. Limited financial services for evening. £2.5m for schools. IWC has no duty to do this. Discretionary spend will be reviewed later in the year and may be cut.
Cllr Pugh: To have the flexibility to offer students bus services for after-school clubs
Cllr Welsford: Is this down to a failure to respond?
Stuart Love: I’m not aware of this. I will take it away and give a detailed response.
[19:19] Update 5
Cllr Lumley: Cllr Pugh, you have a financial illiteracy about the Government figures.
Q: Now you have your government in place – what representation are you making to them? What pressure are you putting on? Or are you happy with the sadness will be inflicting?
Cllr Pugh: Of course we don’t want to be giving cuts. We will continue of support the older and more vulnerable members of the Island.
We are lobbying the government. There’s no point in doing every one.
Cllr Brown: I hope the work on this cabinet is not viewed as being carried on behind closed doors. Our decisions are not made without difficulties.
Robert Jackson (Youth council): Worried about cavalier statements about getting rid of Student Rider. Will hit the most vulnerable the hardest. I don’t know anyone who has £90 to spend on a bus pass
Cllr Giles: Other schemes are available. If we carry on with Student Rider, we may have to pay SV £500k. There’s always the possibility of using you bike.
Jack Bell: Youth MP: I’ve not met one person using Student Rider school. Freedom tickets is £20/week – more than bus as it is. I’ve seven siblings – difference adds up to £57/week extra for the family. Why didn’t you come to the youth council first? How did you consider us at all?
There could be an adverse action on anti-social behaviour, because people can’t get around.
Cllr Pugh: On Student Rider scheme, we are one of the very few who offer this in the UK. We know this will have an adverse impact.
I’d be happy to meet with you next week. This is a recommendation from Cabinet, not a decision
Vote – 7 (passed)
_Next item
(Cllr Pugh leaving – a board meeting?)
(Not many people left in public gallery now)
[19:38] Update 6
Cllr Mazillius: Transforming social care. At it’s core is Personalisation from Institutionalised services to personal – A sea-change in care. Your Care Website – new branding too
Working the advocacy. One of only 12 sites across country. Directorate have issued a DVD.
Target will be off 5% by July. Easily hit target by next year. Consultation is very important. A wide range of people. Have set up a user ref group. Set up a user care conference – very successful. 100 provider or reps attended. Key stakeholders board also connect. £1.7m to be spent over 3 years (details in paper). Capital budget £120k. (Appendix D)
Review is on track (due end of the month).
_Cabinet Questions
Cllr Bingham: Why are services closing?
Cllr Mazillius: Wording is inappropriate. It’s people who are not eligible for it.
Cllr Brown: If providers buy into it, it’s a strong foot forward. Delighted that conference worked well. This report is to note, not to vote on.
Cllr Welsford: Q: Any idea of day care centre’s impact?
Cllr Mazillius: there is an issue over day care centers. Personalised budget is statutory. Officers are working hard – discussion are still on-going. We’re working hard that there isn’t a diminution of services.
Cllr Welsford: Do you recognise that people with metal issues find change very hard? How can we demonstrate this has been taken on board?
Cllr M: We’re doing all we can to ensure that as little disruption is made. There will be some. It’s impossible to review this many cases quickly. If you do have specific concerns, please email me.
Cllr Brown: Feedback from Ward councillors is important.
Mr Howell (director): Paragraph 10 – support is available – advocates and brokers available across the Island. Very happy to give any further assistance for Personalised budget.
Cllr Cousins: I’m getting less and less enquiries – people appearing happier.
_Next
Cllr Mazillius: Sustainable housing. We’ve taken the view that there isn’t sufficient affordable housing in Rural areas. Only 21 houses been built withing requirements.
(To be frank – this section has all been a bit of a blur to me. I guess I’m bedazzled by Cllr Mazillius)
He recommends option 2 for a vote.
[20:05] Update 7
(A demo of some sort outside County Hall – not clear from up here what it is. Someone on a megaphone)
Cllr Downer Q: The affordable house, with green belt and brown belt. How’s it going to be distinguished?
Cllr Mazillius: homes will be built in accordance with proper planning law.
Vote – 7 (passed)
Forward Plan – new one coming out on Monday.
–END
Asking officer to look into charging for home care, increasing meals on wheels costs, review of free personal home care
Unbeleiveable…they still attack those least able to cope
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perhaps councellor Cousins is getting less and less enquiries cos we all despair of getting any proper answers!
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a serious rank and file examination of the council employees?
How about an examination starting at the top where the most money can be saved by eliminating managers who spend most of their time trying to justify their own jobs. Let the rank and file get on with their jobs and thin out the management as they are the ones paid the most.
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Yes! Start at the top.
The top man at any council should be paid no more than £100.000. If they can not manage on that very generous pay they should move on and make way for someone who can.
This culture, at present in all councils througout the UK that believe they can pay themselves just what they want must stop. Many are being paid more than the Prime minister.
Then one must take into consideration all the perks that go with being one of the Top Cats.
It’s time the tax payers took control.
However, nothing will change, this is the UK.
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I would say £50k personally. Really, who needs more than that to live on? Theres families supporting themselves on £15k a year or less.
Some will say we have to pay to get the best and attract them away from industry. Well, quite frankly, industry will always pay more because they can, and I suspect a public sector decrease would lead to a private sector decrease as companies realise they can save money because the high ‘earners’ cannot earn more elsewhere.
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the key point there was ‘pay to get the best’…we pay to get mediocraty’
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Cllr Giles: Other schemes are available. If we carry on with Student Rider, we may have to pay SV £500k. There’s always the possibility of using you bike.
First time Ive agreed with something hes said.
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All votes by the cabinet members tonight have been unanimous in favour of the recommendation – leading us to believe the “it’s all agreed beforehand” theory.
What a surprise!
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“Cllr Pugh: On Student Rider scheme, we are one of the very few who offer this in the UK. We know this will have an adverse impact.”
Surrey and West Sussex County Council both offer discounted fares for students, at least, so that’s two more to add to the list.
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if it does go southern vectis will still offer discounted fares to NUS holders. I agree compleatly with withdrawing it or at the very least scaling it back. I dont agree with Pugh that it will have adverse impact. I think in the long run it will have a very positive impact.
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Positive how Blank?
Vectis already runs a shambles of a service, at almost double the cost from other parts of the country. The only positive outcome here is Vectis lining their pockets more taking money from those who REALLY can’t afford it, and that’s positive to their executives.
This WILL cause low attendance in schools and colleges. This WILL impede young people in finding part-time work, and this WILL impede young people visiting Island attractions.
Combined with the closure of Shanklin Fire Station, I really feel this is starting to take the proverbial…
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positive in that people wont pay the higher fares and will eventually find alternatives. Positive in that there is still an NUS discount that students can use. Positive in that it will save us all money and wont impact too much on students who have the NUS card.
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nope..they will just jump in a car, thus clogging the streets even more dureing the school run
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ahh yes, the school run, which is of course unaffected by this as there is a different ticket available to give transport to and from school.
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Not only are we the ‘few who offer this in the UK’, but we also have one of the highest bus fares in the UK so perhaps the areas which don’t offer student concessions, don’t need to because the fares are more acceptable and full fare dosn’t kick in until reaching 16.
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regarding child fare with buses it stops at 13 years old.and as far as I can see the Freedom doesnot do student ones so it would be £180 for 90 days, or 70 a month. therefore for me and 3 kids going to school clubs etc it’s the joy of either £210 a month or £540 for 3. Not everyone had this sort of money just at hand.So it’ll be mum’s taxi on the go.In Southampton the fare for an adult to get from red jet to hospital, roughly 5.5 miles is £4 return, £2.50 for half price 16 and under!roughly the same as Binstead to Ryde,
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And most of the buses in Southampton are run by SV’s sister comapny!
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Big thanks to Simon for typing all the discussion and sending back to base before I sort it for publishing. He’s like lightning on the keyboard (and it’s a Blackberry!).
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You two do a grand job. =)
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Yes, Simon does a fine job………
Just one thing. When Roger Mazillius (ConDem) invited Reg Barry from the local Lib Dems to sign up to their Coalition-inspired public service slashing programme for the next 4 years, Reg sadly failed to take the opportunity to distance the local Lib Dems from Clegg and their party leadership. Unlike IW Labour who resolutely and publicly opposed the 2003 Iraq war.
Can anyone else tell me ? Are the local Li bDems supportive of the Cameron/Clegg Coalition and its Cuts agenda, or are they opposed?
Its a reasonable question Reg, Dave, John, Jill, Morris ………..
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perhaps ask them directly? You make many good comments on here Geoff, but sometimes I do find myself wondering if your more political comments should be directed to the council rather than the general public. Hopefully youve asked the question you ask above directly to the libdems on the island as well as asking it on here.
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I have asked and I know the answer. I just want them to be open and honest.
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well maybe tell us all the answer then?
You want them to be open and honest, how about yourself being open and not insinuating the answer through inuenndo (i know thats not exactly the right word but im tired). If you know the answer Geoff, dont keep it to yourself. Tell us all. Clearly if they wanted to keep it a secret they wouldnt have told you in the first place.
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Ok now let me just say that what you’re witnessing isn’t cuts,this is decline & it’s decline that’s going to accelerate exponentially into depression & then total collapse.I don’t know which councillors know what about the situation & it doesn’t really matter,the ones that are aware are lying,the ones that aren’t are just as bewildered as most of the public.This is about oil,i even bore myself with this formula but onc again…. energy=oil=economy,i’m not going to go indepth here but basicly if the hydrocarbon energy depletes then the economy must also,”peak oil” highlights half the worlds reserves but this then opens the door for “geopolitics”… let’s not be naive about foreign policy in the middle east here please.
I comprehend the gravity of what i’m saying here but in simple terms we have an infinite economic growth paradigm built on a finite resource,we have now reached the point in time (more like 2003)where the inevitable outcome of this paradoxical situation comes to fruition.These cuts are merely a death throw justure & something akin to Kanute with the tide.
Given this siutation we would be far better placed to attempt radical localization in terms of trade & impliment mass food growing programes (this was attempted by transition island some time ago,alas..)on the island,anything else within the context of care in the comunity will have to be done by volutneers froma grass roots level.
Please feel free to question & refute my comments,but i at least hope they bring some clarity as to why the economic situation has the status quo that it does.
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My only argument is with the use of Kanute as a parrallel….he was showing limit to his power in comparison to the powers of God/Nature.
The other story is school book fantasy
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Come on Jill, Morris, Reg and Co, a sensible reasonable question from Geoff. What’s the answer?
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IB, I really am bewildered by some of your comments. Cycling is not for the faint hearted, in fact at times it can be terrifing and dangerous. It certainly is not an alternative for the student rider, especially once it’s dark. The NUS card exists for over 16s once they’ve gone into 6th form or to college, so what about year 11s. SV is one of the most expensive bus services in the country. The introduction of the student rider was one of the councils better decisions which opened up the island to young people and families, it’s very sad to see it go back to being unaffordable again.
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i agree, it’s bad enough driving the route from Ryde to Newport let alone trying to get a 13 and 15 yr old to cycle it!and for going out to meet friends or clubs where are they all going to be leaving these bikes?????as far as I’m aware there are little or no bike rack areas available.
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The fundamental assumption of a democracy is that the elected government make available services to all, irrespective of income. Transport in rural areas is an essential/fundamental part of life and as such should be considered a human right.
It is a duty of the government to provide accessible public transport in rural areas unless the principle of duty and responsibility has been wiped off their books for an indeterminate period of time. In which case there may be a cause for civil action ?
Are there any experts on human and civil rights who could assist?
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Totally agree SR, transport in rural areas is a human right. The history of human rights is one of change, before we had an NHS the right was fought for and the NHS was established and now it is part of the repertoire of human rights globally. Education is a contemporay human right. Modern definitions of human rights are essential and I would say, “yes go on, demand them” because that is progress and civilisation taken to a higher level.Today it is people, human beings from all walks of life and particularly the majority who should decide what human rights should be. This is why society has to fulfill these aspirations and they should not be undermined by “deficits” caused irresponsibly and ensuing cuts.I agree with you about responsibility, it is the government being responsible for the well being of its citizens. We should not sit back and let all that has been achieved in society become undone because of a financial crisis. We should not pay for a crisis caused by others who want to shift that burden onto citizens who are being asked to pay through sacrificing the welfare state and established services.Human rights are established because they benefit us they are not detrimental, that is why the UN established its Charter of Rights after the Second World War and that is why the European Court scrutinises human rights.It is also why we should have a written constitution that establishes the rights of all citizens in Britain.
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Well said. Given that we are all still paying Council tax, I am
flummoxed as to how we can fight for and regain the right to have public transport here in rural IOW.
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You can’t,growth on an oil based economy is over.
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The Council is required to provide reasonable access to the council chambers for everyone, regardless of disability etc. This might be interpreted as including the need to ensure reasonable transport infrastructure such as buses.
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Like the “Transforming social care” made me think of “Mock the week” had vision of No 5 standing alongside sayine “Of course what I really mena is we are hell bent on destroying social care”
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It was an anology more in referenance to the status quo & the futility of attempting to reverse the economic paradigm,but even then….Kanute attempted to defy nature with ignorance,so yes…i would say a comparison could still be drawn.
What “other story”?….sorry lost me there.
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The school book version is that he was trying to demonstrate his power over nature and the waves, but got his feet wet…in reality he was demonstrating his fallibility, not trying to prove his infallibility
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Ahh yes,point taken.But as far as the mojority are aware the school book story applies to mae the point.
Let’s not get caught up in a sea of contextual argument here…not when the truth of the economy is up for discussion.
And as i see the various other points being made it just proves how much the eye is off the ball.
Could we not both agree and publicly debate the real issues in the hope that others may tak note?
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If you want to see a council in action wait until we are able to tax horse saddles, charge 25% VAT on cars valued over £25K, increase car tax on 4X4 and high emmision vehicles…then you will see them mobilise
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How about ‘any vehicle over the width of half a Wightish Road’. No hang on that would include even my Suzuki Alto….
Any vehicle over the width of (to be decided) ????
Actually, why DO people drive 4×4 vehicles round here? I can’t imagine there’s a lot of off-road and farm driving to be done. And such ‘cars’ went out as what was anyway a rather giggleworthy status symbol years ago…
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Now you are in trouble :)
You can’t upset the 4X4 crowd..they’ll set the foxhounds on you
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You have FOXHOUNDS on the Island?!!!!
This gets quainter and quainter :-)
PS we have a 4×4 ourselves, does that make me part of The Crowd? Its used the pull the harrows round the training track, ferry the feeds, and to take the horse floats to the races .. (Wendy drives)
otherwise we use the Suzuki Alto (I drive)
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my grandmother was a domestic servant at gatcombe house where hunters and foxhounds used to muster before setting out.
the law is watching!
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There is NO MONEY as a country we are bankrupt & we no longer have the energy on which our fifnacial growth is based.Stop looking to the council for the answers people…they simply don’t have them,grass roots self help is whats needed.
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Wendy, you can get student versions of the freedom tickets for half price, but once the student rider goes I guess these wont be available as you require a student rider
IB as it has been said before there are some routes which are dangerous to cycle to, especially in the dark. And also, NUS cards are only avaiable to 16+’s in full time education *_*
I think this whole idea is pretty ridiculous.
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