Author: Sal
Ventnor Town Council Meeting 5 October 2009 Report
Tuesday, 13th October, 2009 at 10:41 pm, Isle of Wight
Last week’s Ventnor Town Council meeting (Monday, 5 October 2009) was a little more than ‘extraordinary’. Despite the short agenda, the public question time at the beginning was extended from the usual 15 mins to well over an hour.
As only an overview of the meeting was reported elsewhere, we felt our readers might appreciate an accurate and more detailed account of what happened at the meeting. What follows is straight reporting of the facts without opinion or comment.
By 7pm, the main hall of the Ventnor Winter Gardens was (unusually) filled with around 120-130 members of the public.
Plans Committee
Proceedings started with the Plans Committee which had to be adjourned for a short period of time as Cllrs Perks and Welsford were in discussion with the Town Clerk.
They returned to join the meeting after many members of the audience started slow hand clapping. The one planning application on the agenda was considered, refused and the meeting closed.
Town Meeting opens
The Extraordinary Town Council meeting was then able to commence, starting with apologies for absence recorded for Cllr Nettleton (who arrived later) and Cllr George.
As concessionaire of the Winter Gardens, Cllr Perks declared an interest in any discussions regarding the venue.
Public questions
The first question came from Ventnor resident, Mr Hanley, who once again (having made the same request at a previous TC meeting) asked for parking provision to be made for members of the public using the Eastern esplanade with sea trailers.
Cllr Welsford stated that in his capacity as Ward Councillor for the area, he would take the matter up at County Hall.
The next question came from Valerie Lockwood, a WG volunteer and trustee, who asked Cllr Perks why he’d resigned from his concession at the Winter Gardens.
This was met with applause from the audience.
Response by Cllr Perks
Cllr Perks started his response by stating that he needed “to be careful not to put a foot wrong, because I’m being referred to an investigation for assessment of the sub-committee of Ethical Standards, because of the way I voted on the Jazz Festival”.
He went on to say that his first two years at the Winter Gardens were very good. More shows were going on, he was employing more staff, the turnover was going up and everything was rosy.
Then the elections came and he claimed that certain councilors on the blog referred to his flags in the bar and that perhaps he was a secret BNP member. He said that he is patriotic but not a member of the BNP.
He also said that another comment on VB was that he was no way to be considered as a part of the management of the Winter Gardens, he confirmed to the audience that he had been asked by the previous clerk, John Farrant and ex-Cllr, Maureen Cawley to be involved with the entertainment side of things.
Post election
He went onto say that after the elections, things started to change due to cancellation of shows, a lack of manager, none of the cancelled shows had been replaced, and all this directly affected his staff, the takings and in his view, the popularity of venue.
Cllr Perks continued, saying that there were only three shows between then and Christmas, but only one of them required a bar.
He referred to the “upset” over ticket sales for the Cleo Laine and Johnny Dankworth gig, stating that although some other councillors don’t believe they should get involved in local business, he felt that they should all be looking at getting Ventnor on the map as an entertainment venue (met by great applause from the audience).
He went on to say that although the ticket office at the WG is not selling tickets for the gig, he was selling them behind the bar.
The list of concerns, which have led him to his resignation, continued with Cllr Perks’ dissatisfaction that the Andy Fairweather Low gig had not been promoted on the WG Website, but despite this it attracted a good crowd.
Meeting with other councillors
He went onto to refer to a meeting held between himself, Cllr Welsford and Cllr George where it was agreed that there would be weekly meetings with regard to the day-to-day running of the venue. Cllr Perks stated that as licensee for the premises he felt that he deserved to have all details of shows, how many tickets sold etc so that he could organise his staff and food orders etc.
He told the audience that as licensee of the premises “If there’s a riot, the police will come to me.”
Going on to say that despite repeated requests, he’d received nothing in writing about the events, Cllr Perks felt that his “integrity was being put on the line.”
He continued that he’d received no official paperwork informing him of the drinks reception being held for the Robin McInnes Art Exhibition.
This was a private reception for which Mr McInnes had chosen to provide his own catering. Cllr Perks was concerned that he should have been informed about the reception and that free drinks were being provided, because if alcohol had been given to anyone underage, he as licensee for the premises would have been liable.
Cllr Perks finished his response to the question by Mrs Lockwood by saying that he felt Cllr Welsford should have told him at their last meeting that he’d been reported to the Ethical and Standards Committee and that because Cllr Welsford hadn’t mentioned anything at that meeting, that it had been the final twist of the knife.
The audience responds
This was met with great applause from the audience and Mrs Lockwood said “You’re going to be a great loss … I’m disgusted.”
This was met with more applause and cheers from the audience.
Several people started calling out and Cllr Welsford asked for order and for people to sit down.
Another man stood up and called out “There’s only one problem here … those four people” pointing to councillors at the front of the hall.
The Town Clerk called out several times asking for quiet and requested that the gentleman stop calling out and allow her to answer. This was met with jeers from the crowd and he continued talking.
The whole room then erupted in to shouting from the audience, with people stamping their feet on the floor.
One councillor was clearly seen (by the audience and other members of the council) to be ‘egging the audience on’ with his hand jestures (winding up signals).
Order please
A female member of the audience who didn’t give her name then asked for the Mayor to keep order saying “we all want to hear everyone’s opinions and not just the big mouths.”
Someone from the audience shouted to her “keep quiet then!”
The temporary Town Clerk, Tina Bailey then asked for the audience to hear what she had to say.
Town Clerk addresses the audience
“The Town council has to act within the local government act. There is no alternative – they have to comply with it.”
She went on to explain that the building has to be run as a commercial enterprise, but that two are not compatible which is why the town council want to hand it back to the community for the community to run.
This was met with the foot stamping and shouting again from the audience to which she continued “We can sit here and shout and get nowhere, or we can all work together.”
Another member of public stood up and called out “That’s because we care, we’ve got passion, none of you lot seem to care much about it, or us.”
Mayor’s response to Cllr Perks’ statement
Cllr Welsford stated that the choice made by Cllr Perks to leave the Winter Gardens was his own.
He told Cllr Perks that he felt he’d been disingenuous in his speech, by saying that he’d been referred to the Ethical and Standards Committee prior to the meeting mentioned.
Cllr Welsford confirmed that the referral had taken place in agreement with the former Town Clerk, John Farrant, and that it was Cllr Perks’ fault for not reading the code of conduct, particularly as it was a financial impropriety and that Cllr Perks was wrong to try and blame it onto the other Councillors.
He continued that the referral had happened after much soul searching, which he claimed Cllr Perks knew about because he’d written to him about it before making the referral.
Cllr Perks then said he knew nothing of the letter, but Cllr Welsford replied that “I can prove that you did.”
When is next Winter Gardens Management Committee Meeting?
Anthony Churchill, a member of the audience, called out asking why Cllr Perks had been reported and when the next Winter Gardens meeting would be, stating that the TC Website showed the next one wasn’t until December.
Cllr Welsford replied that the new Town Clerk was to be appointed that evening and everything would follow after that.
This was followed by more shouting from the audience who were asked again to remain seated and ask one question at a time.
More questions from the public
Jane Goodlet, Secretary for Ventnor Carnival then asked “How many shows are being put on? We’ve known this building is falling to pieces for years, it’s old news, we’ve know it for years – you’re not telling us anything new.” She went on to ask “When is the next show?”
Cllr Stubbings replied that the next show was on Thursday that week with Voices for the Hospice gig. It was a free event with a retiring collection in aid of the Earl Mountbatten Hospice.
Mrs Goodlet argued that this gig was not going to raise money for the roof.
Cllr Welsford said it was clear that one fundraising event alone was not going to save the roof, but reiterated that the Councillors had been working very hard to try and save the building.
This was met with the question “why have you cancelled shows then?”
Invalid contracts
Cllr Welsford replied that some shows had been cancelled because the contracts were invalid.
Calls of ‘rubbish’ came from the back of the hall along with more shouting from members of the audience.
Cllr Welsford said to the audience that if the shouting continued he would close the meeting.
Why some shows have been cancelled
Cllr Stubbings, who told the audience that he’d been helping out at the Winter Gardens for the last few weeks, went onto explain that why some of the shows had been cancelled.
He told the audience that some of them were cancelled by promoters due to the economic climate.
He made the invitation to all members of the audience if they’d like details of specific shows that had been cancelled, to see him after the meeting he would happily go through the details.
Cllr Mew then asked “Why isn’t the Chairman of WG here tonight?” This was met with great applause from the audience.
Cllr Welsford replied that Cllr George was on the mainland on business and had sent his apologies in advance of the meeting.
This was met with booing and hissing from the audience with comments such as “oh yeah” called out.
Public questions continue beyond the alloted 15 minutes
Twenty minutes in to public question time and another question from a member of the public, this time local garage owner, Mr Chilcott.
“Will there be a manager at the Winter Gardens? It used to be a mess, like a doss hole.”
Cllrs Welsford confirmed that they hoped to appoint a general manager shortly. Whilst trying to reply to the question, he was interrupted several times by Mr Chilcott.
When Cllr Welsford asked Mr Chilcott whether he intended to let him answer the question, he was met with screams of “You’ve got such a bad attitude”, “You shouldn’t be a councillor” from the back of the hall, supported by thumping, whistling and applause by the majority of the audience.
Mr Chilcott asked for his question to be answered to which Cllr Welsford replied that he had answered the question by saying “yes, that’s what going to happen.”
Mr Chilcott shouted “that’s not good enough, everyone agrees with me, that’s not good enough.”
Many members of the audience were calling out at the same time with comments such as “When are the flats coming?”
Town Clerk asked to withdraw statement
The next question came from Stewart Blackmore, manager of the Ventnor Golf Club.
After remarking that he hoped that the meeting wasn’t an interview for the temporary Town Clerk, as “she would have failed spectacularly”.
He said that the Town Clerk had stated that it’s not the business of a Town Council to run premises commercially. This was quickly corrected by Cllr Welsford who informed Mr Blackmore that she’d stated it was difficult situation to run a commercial organisation out of a Town Council.
Mr Blackmore continued that there were numerous examples up and down the country of Town Councils running commercial venues and he went onto say that it was not the position of someone on the payroll to make comment about whether the TC should run the venue.
He asked whether the Town Clerk like to withdraw her comment.
Cllr Welsford said he was happy that Town Clerk had not said anything she shouldn’t have.
Why free bar without licensees knowledge?
The next question came from Jill Craigs (sorry if wrong spelling), an ex-license holder. She asked how a function with free drinks could take place in the Winter Gardens.
“He’s (Cllr Perks) not going to make any money, how is that going to improve this property to have people bringing their own drink in?”
There seemed to be some confusion about what event she was referring to, she told Cllr Welsford that he’d (Cllr Welsford) said there was a private function for artists where free drinks were given out.
Cllrs Welsford said that he didn’t know anything about it. This was met with jeers and boos from the audience.
It was suggested by Cllr Stubbings that the event the lady was probably referring to was the one previously mentioned by Cllr Perks (Robin McInnes’ reception).
Cllr Stubbings told the audience that he’d been covering the office and that he didn’t know anything about the drinks reception either.
Cllr Perks confirmed it was the Robin McInnes’ event that the lady was referring to and that he hadn’t received any official paperwork about it either.
Cllr Welsford said that the TC would take on board what was being said by the public.
Someone then called out and asked if a fund raising event could take place, which was greeted with approval from the TC.
Another man called from the audience “Is is going to be cancelled first?” followed by laughter from the audience.
What happens to bar after Cllr Perks leaves WG?
Another member of the public asked, once Cllr Perks leaves the Winter Gardens what will happen at scheduled gigs, “would be bar be running?”
It was confirmed that alternative arrangements would be made to cover the bar after Cllr Perks leaves.
Question from former chair of Winter Gardens Committee
The next question came from ex-councillor Maureen Cawley, who is also on the Winter Gardens Action Group.
She was greeted with huge applause from the audience.
She asked why five shows (booked with UK Entertainments) had been cancelled. She said that the deal previously arranged was for all expenses paid and a 50/50 split.
“You don’t get a better deal than that” she continued and advised the TC that “all five artists are now appearing at the Quay Arts Centre and I’d should like to know why we turned them all down?”
Great applause from the audience.
Cllr Welsford replied that Mrs Cawley had asked the same question the previous meeting and that the events had been cancelled because they the acts did not have written contracts.
Calls of “Well done Maureen!” came from the audience.
Mrs Cawley stated that she herself had signed the contract for Linda Gail Lewis as well as booking the bed and breakfast. She said “If you’ve torn it up then I suggest that you should look in to this a little more carefully as it is very unethical.”
Cllr Welsford said it was difficult to continue to answer questions as he had not been dealing with the matter, but said “Maureen, you know the answer to the question.”
More views from the audience
A gentleman in the audience (didn’t give name) then stood up and gave a speech thanking the audience for attending the meeting and caring so much about the Winter Gardens.
This was met with applause from the audience. Cllr Welsford asked if the gentleman had a question to ask.
After some fumbling having lost his place on the sheet of paper he was reading from, he continued saying “The Winter Gardens is our heritage and that if it closes and you (the Town Council) let it close, Ventnor is going to die.”
Cllr Welsford asked again if he had a question.
After more applause from the audience he carried on saying that he felt that the “problems started with four people, doing something wrong, like having private meetings amongst themselves.”
Cllr Welsford said that he sympathised with what the man was saying but that he thought some assumptions were being made that were not correct.
“Let him speak” came the calls from the audience.
The man continued saying “The four people who have created who have created his trouble, in my eyes should be thrown thrown off the council and not be allowed back on any Council on the Isle of Wight for at least ten years.”
This was met with huge applause from the audience with stamping of feet, whistling, cheering and whooping.
Cllr Lucas steps in
Cllr Lucas then addressed the audience and told them that “it was more than four people who discussed what was going to happen to the Winter Gardens … we needed to do something radical.”
“It’s falling down and if we wait for it to fall down, you’ll all say ‘why didn’t you do something earlier?’ We’ve got to do something radical but where this committee had gone wrong is dealing with it insensitively” and he included himself in this.
He said that the mood of people in the audience and in the town was that they wanted things to move slowly and gradually, but “that if there are contracts which you know don’t work, you’ve got to look at them critically and be business like.”
He admitted that the TC had been insensitive, but not uncaring about what is needed for the building.
He went on to say that they were comforted that so many people were showing an interest in the future of the Winter Gardens.
He suggested that in future far more consultation takes place with the community before decisions are made and that he will insist on that in the future.
This was met with huge applause from the audience.
Second my proposal?
The gentleman who had earlier made the proposal that four of the councillors should be asked to leave the Town Council asked for it to be seconded.
Cllr Welsford said that he could not (only councillors can propose motions, to be seconded or refused by the TC, not members of the public).
Will Perks leaving result in job losses?
Another lady in audience (didn’t give name) asked the TC “What’s going to happen the 20 people who work here with Mr Perks?”
Cllr Welsford said he didn’t yet know what was going to happen. He told the audience that he’d hoped Cllr Perks would have reconsidered his resignation.
She went onto ask “Are you taking any bookings for Christmas?” to which Cllr Welsford answered that he wasn’t able to answer as he did not know at the moment.
At this point Cllr Welsford said they would accept two more questions.
Mark (sorry – didn’t catch surname) asked “You have admitted that none of you have any idea of how to run this place, so why try are you trying to take control from the one man who does?”
More applause from from the audience.
Cllr Welsford replied, “I explained that in the Chronicle last week. That was not my intention and I regret the fact that Cllr Perks has chosen to leave. He knows that as I had a long meeting with him and made it very clear how I felt and I’m sad that it’s come to this tonight.”
Listed status for the Winter Gardens?
Mrs Soames from the audience then suggested “Why not get listed status to preserve and go for heritage lottery grants.”
This was met with applause from the audience but answered by Cllr Lucas that listed status “can be kiss of death.”
He pointed out that it would mean restoring authentically at twice the cost of what is needed at, way more than the estimated £600,000.
Cllr Welsford closed the public question time and apologised to the audience that some of the answers had been disappointing for them (calls of ’some of them?’ came from the audience) but he continued by stating that all the councillors do care about the Winter Gardens.
He carried on “I have so many other things in my life that I could be doing and I’m taking time out to do this.”
“Go then” and “Get lost” were called from the audience along with hissing, booing and thumping on the floor.
Cllrs Lucas said that audience could help the situation by trying and persuade Cllr Perks to stay as he and others had done.
“He can’t stay with the back stabbers” and similar comments came from the audience.
Cllr Welsford asked for quiet from the audience.
Calls of “Ooo what you gonna do?”, “If you’ve better things to do, get lost” and “Out, out, out” came from the audience.
Cllr Welsford called for order and reiterated that he hadn’t said “I’ve better things to do”, but that he’d chosen his words carefully.
This was met with more shouting and booing from the audience.
As the meeting moved on to the next agenda items, the vast majority of the audience slowly and noisily left the hall.
Next Agenda Item – Additional funding for Seabreeze Park
Cllr Scoccia suggested that item 7 be brought forward and discussed before the exclusion of the press and public, as there we some people in the audience keen to hear the discussion.
This was agreed by other councillors and the item discussed.
Cllr Welsford advised that additional funding for the children’s playground needed to be considered.
He explained that the TC had made provision for £750 towards the insurance/maintenance cost for the children’s playground, but that the isle of Wight Council were now saying the cost had risen to £1,500.
The councillors discussed whether they increase the funding to £1,500 rather than take on the responsibility for the maintenance and health and safety checks for the playground.
Cllr Mew against additional funding
Cllr Mew said “It’s all very well coming along and nibbling away at our funds but we have other projects that we’re committed to and one of them being allotments which is a statutory thing we should be doing and I feel we’ve got to say £750 is all we can afford.”
He went on to say that he welcomed the play area but thought the IWC should take on responsibility as they are a bigger collector of funds. He made it clear that he wouldn’t support an increase in the funds for the playground.
Cllr Lucas – No to risk and yes to funding
Cllr Lucas spoke next – saying that he wouldn’t support the TC taking on the risk of the health and safety of the playground. The playground was not just swings and roundabout, he said, but included some really innovative play.
He proposed that the TC find the additional £750 to ensure that the risk and responsibility lie with the IWC for the playground.
Cllr Scoccia also agreed that the TC should fund the extra money required and Cllr Stubbings added that he felt the TC does little for the youth in the town and that he supported I support the additional funding.
Cllr Mew stood again and argued that he felt the money should not be given.
He was asked to remain seated.
Vote passed
Cllr Welsford called for the vote which was passed with all councillors voting to increase the funds except Cllr Mew (9 for and 1 against).
The public were then asked to leave the meeting as the TC moved on to the next items on the agenda which were to ratify the appointment of a new Clerical Assistant and new Town Clerk.
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Wow, did that much really happen? Thanks Sal for scribing in such detail.
I used to get concerned when only the CP and two residents turned up for meetings. Now we have full public engagement, lets turn it to good.
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It’s saddening to see that Ventnor seems to be populated with a rabble of rude and ignorant thugs whose only objectives are to cause mayhem and disruption.
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Sad Owl when did you see this? Ventnor is not populated by rude and ignorant thugs—there were about 130 people there, mostly angry and voicing opposition I’ll grant, but there were about 10 to possibly 20 who were very loud and barracking & maybe 5 or so had had a little drink at the bar prior to the meeting.
The majority of these people are not drunks & don’t rise up in anger very easily! Or usually turn out in such significant numbers. This does illustrate the depth of feeling being aroused by this issue!
Nor did they turn into thugs.
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I am afraid Colin you judge the rabble by the one’s you hear.
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Here here!
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There there Sad Owl.
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Colin, with respect, I have better things to do…
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Would that be better or other……..
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Chris, sorry you had a hard time, I’ve been in similar meetings around the Island over the years and always started off knowing I should be in the wrong at the end. It might be sensible to ask the County to split the work they have detailed into the four priorities set out by the Government to see what are the relative urgencies. Their condition survey should contain this information. If any section of work were at the highest priority the building would have beeen closed by now by the IW Council.
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That’s what actually happened?!
How different it looks to what has been reported and written about elsewhere.
Thank you Simon and Sal. You are a credit to your profession.
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Absolutely! What a breath of fresh air. If only all local journalists had your commitment to professionalism & truth Sal.
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I wasnt at this meeting, but as fairly new resident I would say this. Ventnor is a beautiful town, the Winter Gardens is probably one of the few blots on the landscape. I dont know Mr Perks, or the councillors, but on the few occasions I have popped into the Winter gardens for a drink , I felt like I was an extra in the ” Slaughtered lamb ” which famously gained cult status in the ” American Werewolf movie, for its unwelcoming mood. If change is going to take place there in , then I’m all for it. It sounds like the meeting was attended by Millwall and West ham fans, and some objective and constructive thinking is needed. Anyone can offer themselves up as town councillors. I’ve exxperienced similar situations in the past with voluntary roles,they can wreck and dominate your lives and its a big sacrifice. To those critical voices from the audience, the answer is, get up there, give up your spare time, and turn that passion into commitment!
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I’d have to agree that I have also found those using the bar unwelcoming when I’ve been there on film nights or just for a mid-week drink. The men are loutish, rude and leering. I was surprised to see a sign behind the bar about swearing not being acceptable, because almost every other word I heard from people propping up the bar, was F-this and F-that.
Even having read the report (it took quite a while but was worth it after all the rumours I’ve heard over the last week) I can’t imagine how dreadful it must have been for the councillors – who from what I’ve read are just trying to protect the Winter Gardens and try to make it work.
As Mr Lucas says above, radical action is needed when you’re in a crisis and if the venue is losing money on a monthly basis – let them take action.
I say best of luck to the councillors and I hope that by next summer we have a landmark that is starting to earn it’s keep, is the vibrant hub of the town that it should be and a place that we can all be proud of.
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Well said Carla. If the Winter gardens bar was the first Ventnor experience for a visitor, they would think I had walked into the Hells Angels Lair ! Mr Perks and his staff could sure do a better job of cleaning up the language and the behaviour.
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Excellent report and I agree with a previous reply that our local paper might learn something from this report. The Chronice,for instance,quoted a comment from a reader alegedly made by the Mayor which was taken out of context.
The mood of the bar at the WG can be intimidating but this is not the fault of Graham Perks whose staff are superb.
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What a thorough and helpful report. Thank you for this. It really shows up the other reports for their inaccuracies. How could both newspapers get the reason Mr Perks was reported to the standards board so wrong, when he actually told the audience the reason. It strengthens my decision to not bother relying on them for accurate news anymore.
That aside, I was intrigued by the comment from Mr Perks stating that there are only three shows between now and Christmas, purely because off the top of my head I know there are more than three in that time.
There are two nights (I think) for the panto, Ash, two nights for the V-Bay festival, the Wonderyears choir, not to mention to two nights of Lane and Dankworth. How could he possibly say there are only three shows on? I’m sure there are others that I don’t know about yet.
It makes me feel less than comfortable believing some of the other things being said.
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The commercial, paying shows are limited between now and Christmas. Depends on your point of view if the Panto or the Savoyards, the piano recital etc., would be classed as main events. Do they pay the Winter Gardens full hiring fees? Three of the events may if we are lucky.
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I know it’s a bit odd me leaving this comment on here, but I wanted to mark and acknowledge the amazing work that Sal has put into this report.
As you can see, it’s extraordinarily comprehensive, and as you might guess, it’s taken her many days to finish, but she’s stuck with it to the end and completed it.
Sadly there’s no payment for this, but the pride she can take is that it’s a complete record, unlike other media reports that contained inaccuracies.
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I agree, refreshing to read what appears to be from the contributors viewpoint a factual record of events as they unfolded, even if the content is thought provoking and disturbing on reflection
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It’s obvious you have gone to a lot of trouble to be meticulous in your coverage to try and avoid any criticism of bias. I suspect there will still be detractors, but from where I sat, this exactly describes what I experienced last Monday. Really excellent article.
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An excellent report, thank you.
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I was intrigued to read this, having read the previous comments about what had or hadn’t happened. Thanks for the thorough report, Sal. My first thought was that it’s a brave soul that takes on the job of town clerk! (Though I’m sure this wasn’t a typical meeting.)
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I was at last Monday’s meeting and this is a fair and accurate report of what happened. Great reporting like this from the Ventnor Blog is an opportunity for all of us to have an informed debate.
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My wife and I have had a home in Ventnor for the last five years and try and visit as much as we can, we live and work in London and cannot wait to the day we can retire to Ventnor. We have both been fortunate to have visited many places around the world and without exception Ventnor is the most wonderful place. One of the many reasons that we love Ventnor is due to Graham Perks and his excellent team of staff from the first time we met him in the Boniface arms and then of course in the Winter Gardens he has always made an effort to talk to us and make us welcome. It would be a great shame and a loss for the people of Ventnor if he was to leave the winter gardens and we would urge everybody to do all they can to change his mind. However if things are meant to be then “good luck” to you Graham no doubt you will move onto bigger and better things and whatever town and venue you find yourself in they will be the better off for having you there.
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He is not going too far. I had a promotional card from a big brewing chain through the door this week offering a free beer at Perks’ new venture in the high street.
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Similar scenario to mark, ventnor is a little gem in the seaside and rural landscape of britain,and still ( fortunately ) largely undiscovered.I dont know Mr Perks personally, but gald you had that experience. However,I would still say that the Winter gardens bar is the least attractive aspect of the ventrnor we have discovered so far, and any change with or without the incumbents is welcome as far as i and my freinds and family are concerned.
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Regarding the clientel of the WG,although I agree some of them seem socially inept,it is no different from any bar where the locals form a clique and “strangers” are viewed with a degree of suspicion
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Not our experience anywhere else frankly, in fact the opposite, with the possible exception of Tintos, may have been a bad day…
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Really? Have you tried the Volly, or the Crab and Lobster, or the Bonchurch Inn, or for that matter a host of other excellent hostelries around town?
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To clarify, the above are all very inviting local pubs.
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I think this got lost in translation. I meant we had received a a warm welcome everywhere with the exception of Tinto’s ( WG apart ).
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Crikey, this all seems a bit heated. I personally feel saddened by the apparent deteriation of the trade at the WG but am not surprised given the (loathed to use the term) ‘current climate’.
I know first hand of the difficulties with a) attracting good profitable events to the venue in the first place that people want to see b) encouraging large numbers of notoriously lethargic patrons from the island outside Ventnor to travel south to attend and c) turning a profit from them with the overheads the venue cannot avoid without compromising safety and quality.
I have been encouraged by the appearances of Richard Herring and Ash to Ventnor this year, the types of events I wanted to put on when I was in charge to attract a younger audience and most importantly the FUTURE audience of the WG but was prevented from doing for reasons I won’t/can’t go into on an internet forum.
I will also say that, assuming a worthy replacement appears, the departure of Perks is not necessarily a bad move as he can concentrate on his other ventures. I am not his greatest fan and believe he was bad for the theatre for reasons, again, that are not appropriate for me to discuss on an internet forum. However, that said I would like to add that I had a great affection and respect for his team who were hard working and thoroughly pleasant to patrons and backroom staff alike.
Most importantly, we all love the WG and in the year I spent at the healm came to understand what the place stands for and means to the town and population. The people of Ventnor need to get behind those in charge (as they did me, temporary or otherwise) and work together to finish the job I wasn’t allowed to complete and ensure that the flats don’t come and that the jewel in the crown of your crazy seaside town can sparkle again.
Si and Sal – keep up the good work ;)
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David, as I said to you at the time, I thought you did a fantastic job of attracting a younger crowd to the Winter Gardens with your more diverse programming and promotion. After all, it’s these people who will be the WG punters of the future.
You built up a massive following on Facebook and MySpace because you spoke to them through the right the communication channels – most of the people attending the events you organised were not going to be there because they read about it in the local newsletter.
It was a great shame that the WG lost your skills and enthusiasm.
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I dont know the history but it seems there is one, and a whole can of worms is spilling out here. Facebook and Myspace have their place, but sometimes that focus actually deters a balanced appealto all ages. For me, and I’m sure others, its not just about the artist, but the ambience, the people, the atmosphere, the ” language ” and the whole experience. Diversity is necessary but create a clean, appealing and well managed and welcoming venue and you are halfway there. These are missing ingredients right now.
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You’re right Roy, FB and MS used to be a waste of time if you were trying to attract an older crowd because you need to target the audience you’re after via the mediums that are appropriate, whatever they are. However, I found (and was surprised that) there are a good number of local people over 30 using Facebook on a regular basis and who used to message me via the WG page about events (but not the case with MS). If contacting them via a free mailshot about an event works, it works and has cost the council only the price of the electricity. At the end of the day, you use ALL the tools available that work the best and use the free ones anyway.
The WG is a community focused venue and thus should be holding events for and encourage the attendance of people of all ages. I used to speak to the youth (under 30’s) a lot and found that most of them didn’t feel included in the schedule that was mainly geared towards a tribute band and over 50’s market that I was encouraged to panda to. That’s not diversity, that’s self-destruction.
One of the most well-attended nights I put on was a local band night headlined by The Operators (average audience age about 20). We had no crowd trouble, very little underage drinking outside the grounds (none inside obviously) and everyone left with a smile on their face. Add events like that to the tribute, classic and jazz mix and you’re on to a winner where everyone in Ventnor feels like they’re part of the WG.
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Helo David Sounds like you were on the ball, with the right ideas and vision. I think they need you back !
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Don’t say things like that, you might put ideas in people’s heads – I’d had enough of being a council puppet. Saying that, it wouldn’t be so bad with certain people who forced me and countless others out now wielding less weight around there. I might consider it eventually but not for a few years – once the nightmares and flashbacks have stopped ;)
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Great post Sal. As an outsider, two things spring to mind…..firstly, Chris Welsford is a virgin Cllr and has had a right bashing…rightly so! He should not have been made “Mayor”. He needed time to be “blooded-in”. Secondly, the outsted former Cllr, Val Taylor, and her cronies (including her mother…who must be in her 90’s…) were evident at the meeting stirring things up. She should concentrate her mind on her full (part) time job as the Clerk to Sandown Town Council. I, for one, will be watching her with a very close eye. Regards. Dave from Sandown.
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I think you’ll find that Chris Welsford is not a ‘virgin cllr’, as you so fetchingly put it, but was in fact a councillor previously when he came in on the bi-election that was held (eight months prior to his ‘mayoral’ term).
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Good report if this is the exact truth? Shame that there will be a media and public blackout for the next meeting. I get the feeling the council is running scared of the electorate and the media. Nice to see plenty of personal attacks of Mr Perks. David Edwards……You seem happy to blow your own trumpet on how well you did at the venue with nothing other than one event to corroborate you claims. I seem to think you did not book a great deal of events and certainly not any that made any money. Was this the only event you booked? Further, “I am not his greatest fan and believe he was bad for the theatre for reasons, again, that are not appropriate for me to discuss on an internet forum” if you are happy to make statements like this why not back them up. You can use this forum to say you don’t like him but now back it up and explain exactly why he has been bad for the WG……..spineless is a word that comes to mind. As for the Ash gig…this is not even a winter gardens event. It has been put on by a private promoter so the WG stands to make nothing more than a hall hire. As for your reasons for leaving…are you sure you left and were not asked to leave for not doing your job???????? Finally who were the people who forced you out and who are those countless others forced out? Come on man, back your statements up.
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I believe that several people – who were at the meeting (including three of the councillors) have already said it is an accurate report of the meeting. Makes your opening statement look a tad vindictive.
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I did not post to a) blow my own trumpet b) to start a slanging match or c) slate members of the council as (I state again) this is not the appropriate place to do so. I will add that I have the bottle/spine to comment under my own name and not a nickname, unlike yourself Isle of Vibe – whoever you are. Also, are you actually fully aware of the internal politics regarding my exit? I would guess that you know nothing but rumour about the situation. I will admit that I was not perfect for the job but gave it my all considering my lack of managerial experience and the fact that I originally applied for a job of lower position. If you really want my answers and/or an honest account of the circumstances I refer to (i.e. have nothing better to do with your time), please feel free to contact the ‘Blog to obtain my phone number or e-mail address. I will await your call if you have the ’spine’……
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‘Good report if this is the exact truth?’
The meeting was taped. Sal’s report is virtually a transcription. It’s not a matter for innuendo, misinformation, rumour, supposition, rabble-rousing or commercial manipulation. It’s the truth.
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Fully agree with David Edwards.I don’t know why he left but he has the courage to post under his own name. I note “Isle of vibe” doesn’t.
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Just noticed on CP that Cleo Laine has had to cancel her gig due to ill-health:
http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/cleo-isle-of-wight-concerts-off-over-ill-health-29081.aspx
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