Author: Darran Gange
Bus Crash in Cowes: Updated (photo gallery)
Thursday, 10th September, 2009 at 3:36 pm, Isle of Wight
We received this following message at 14:17 from VB reader Darran Gange. We’ve not been able to post it before now, but hope it’s still of relevance.
As you might have heard there’s been a big bus crash in Cowes, where one of Southern Vectis’s Bestival buses from the mainland (Wilts and Dorset colours) has crashed into a truck outside Hursts/The co-operative. Looks like a few people may be injured.
Terminus road has been closed to all vehicles (except emergency ones) on last check, this may have changed since.
Update: Two pedestrians were hurt in the collision, one treated for minor injuries and the other taken to St Mary’s Hospital with serious but not life threatening injuries. Both drivers of the bus and lorry were shaken but unharmed.
Many thanks to Darran for also sending through photos.
Related posts:
- Llamas Avoid Car Crash (Photo Gallery)
Not a headline we ever thought we'd find ourselves typing.... - Newport Roads A Disaster After Snow: Updated (photo gallery)
Avoid Newport at all costs, by the sounds of it.... - Fatality At Military Road Crash (Updated)
Car passenger dies in crash the Military Road.... - Cowes Week Catamaran Crash Caught on Video
Eeek... - RIB Crash, Cowes: Three Badly Hurt
ShareI was lucky enough to take part in a race...
Obviously my first thought is for those injured. But, it does make me wonder if SV have brought in mainland drivers, less familiar with the island due to the Bestival. All PSV drivers should of course be competent on all roads, but an accident like this will inevitably make some people wonder.
Offensive comment?
I don’t think that they have brought in any drivers just yet, but are going to for the strike?
I would suggest that as the drivers are used to driving nippy short single deckers onto the Pontoon and up to the Co-op from the High Street, the double-decker going around Carvel Lane caught this driver out.
It is a nasty place to drive a bus I would imagine, as the road levels are all over the place with slopes everywhere!
Offensive comment?
I dont think this has anything to do with the industrial dispute at all. The area concerned is difficult for buses to manouver and has pointed out, thus leaving…
Offensive comment?
My post doesn’t say it had anything to do with the strike. I know SV bring in buses and drivers for the festival – I assume they have done the same for Bestival?
Offensive comment?
Yes they do bring extra buses/drivers for both the festival and Bestival. But to combat the strike during the Bestival, they have bought more drivers in to cover the striking SV drivers.
Offensive comment?
I am an ex W&D driver living abroad. The grapevine that got to me was that a female mainland office staff,was in charge of this bus, parked on a hill without the hand-brake on. Got out for a cigarette, and the bus rolled down the hill.
Offensive comment?
Latest info direct from driver back in Poole. She claims that she got out of bus to talk to driver in bus behind. She says that bus only rolled 20 ft. NO WAY! Also, she has not been a driver for more than 3 years.
Offensive comment?
There would have been very little room for 2 buses to park at that location, buses are supposed to swing in to the layby outside the co-op. Had she of done so, the bus would of been facing the opposite direction. However, this is a very busy bus stop with it being used by the no 1 service at a 7 min frequency so its very possible she would’nt have been able to get in when she arrived.
Personally, I think the bestival buses should not of been allowed down there because of this very reason… there is not enough room!
Offensive comment?
Well we’ve discovered it was a unfamiliar driving, but you can’t just not bridge drivers in I suppose on the off chance one might crash.
The bus was a Wilts & Dorset Optare Spectra, a type Southern Vectis don’t even run, so the driver that crashed probably had an advantage on any SV driver type wise.
The trouble is is that the Bestival buses have to go there, where else can they stop? Although route 1 runs every six minutes, they lay over on the Pontoon and only stop at the Co-op momentarily to pick up passengers on the way out of Cowes.
Another problem is that since no buses to Newport are parked for longer periods of time there anymore, someone thought it would be a good idea to get rid of the old local bus stop (Gurnard etc) which used to be behind the main one, and turn it into a taxi rank. Of course, then there’s the people who park there and get in the way.
Cowes Week is the real problem, as all the buses do sit outside the Co-op as they don’t go on the Pontoon. Five is my personal record, a double decker on route 1, a Wightbus behind it, and three single deckers waiting to go in. That’s bunching for you!
Unfortunately the taxis drivers think they own the place, and at one point they had reversed into the kerb parking side to side to fit more in, making the turn in to the bus stop very tight. One bus driver warned them that a double-decker was coming. Sadly one taxi driver didn’t hear him and went over aggressively as though he was starting a fight. He looked very stupid when the bus driver repeated what he said.
Incidentally, I did see the double decker arrive. It got stuck because the taxis were in the way, and had to reserve down the slope, with pedestrians everywhere, so get a better angle. Now that IS extremely dangerous!
Offensive comment?
…sorry, “bring” drivers in…
Offensive comment?
Sorry Bob, I slightly have to disagree that ‘the Bestival buses have to go there’. After this event, I don’t think either the police or VOSA will agree either. Your point about the No 1 service is ok on paper but in reality there is quite often 2 or 3 buses following each other or ‘bunching up’ as you correctly call it. The fact of the matter is, with that frequency (which is totally un-neccesary), when you have additional buses operating in and out of Cowes beacuse of an event like the Bestivali there is, sooner or later, going to be a big problem… as the case here. There simply is not enough space down there!
Offensive comment?
Where else are they going to go? Northwood House would be useless, as people won’t want to lug camping equipment up Terminus Road, or shall we go back 30 or so years and just have double-deckers hanging about in West Hill Road? To have an effective service for people coming from the ferry the only practical place is outside the Co-op, whether we like it or not. It is the main bus stop in the town, after all.
Although route 1s do bunch, this is usually on the route or when both are on the Pontoon. Usually there is only one at the Co-op, becuase the one behind won’t follow it off the Pontoon. There is room for two buses in there, and route 1s can, and do, come up from the high street and avoid the turning circle and stop park next the bus bus stop pole but in the road if there is a problem.
I don’t see why you constantly say the frequency is too high. The buses can get very busy sometimes, even off peak. The re-vamped service started off at every 7/8 minutes and was increased to every six minutes when more capacity was needed. They wouldn’t run it that frequently if they didn’t need to. I’ve been on crowded number ones loads of times.
Offensive comment?
I dont know where the extra buses can go Bob, but saftey must come first. Coaches are not encouraged to go down there so they use the coach park next to the car park so maybe there is an option. As you say, some bright spark has provided a taxi space at the co-op but even so, there is only space for 2 buses at a time. Re; route 1, a few years ago mini-buses were used on this route at a far less frequency than of now and managed to cope. The reason for some buses being overcrowded is that by running a 6 minute service, buses get bunched up and thus some get delayed so a ‘domino’ affect is created so inevitabely there are going to be gaps in the service which means extra passengers accumilating in those gaps.
Offensive comment?
(Sorry, I’ll try and put the post in the right place this time).
Yes, but those coaches are ones carrying day trippers/people from Hotels in Sandown, where they drop off on the parade, and then drive up to the coach park. The pensioners can then wander about town, and the coach will return to the parade to pick them up. Obviously Bestival buses couldn’t stop at the parade.
Route 1 was previously run with the blue squiggly lines UVG bodied Dennis Darts, which are exactly the same length as the current buses. I’ll accept that one of the rubbish old minibuses used to turn up from time to time, but they aren’t that much different.
Before the network change, route 1 was a completely different service. For a start it was limited stop, and was the only one to go on the Pontoon, and went every half hour to meet with the Red Jet.
Yes, obviously half hourly isn’t as frequent, and the minibuses coped, but double deckers ran the main stopping route 2 and 3 in the Route Rouge colours. The Newport-Cowes frequency was 5, 10, 15, so overall every ten minutes. Obviously a better service and even timing mean more people are using the buses, so the frequency has increased.
Now route 1 is the only service between Newport and Cowes, hence it runs more frequently. I don’t think SV saying route 1 will be the only route Newport-Cowes from now on and it’s staying half hourly would be too popular!
You say safety must come first, but it’s hardly that dangerous is it? There’s been one crash. As I said before, you can’t just not run stuff in case there maybe a crash some time in the future. Think of how many buses are crowded into small spaces in London, the Co-op seems calm in comparison.
Offensive comment?
I feel very sad for all the people involved in this accident, how are their lives going to change because of it? What will happen to the driver, will she lose her job because of it? I wish them all well for the future.
Being a bit of a bus addict, i’m aware of a similar incident that happened in Bournemouth earlier in the year, again involving a W & D double decker bus, although thankfully no-one was injured in that incident.
It seems the driver parked up, got off the bus, had a conversation with a passenger, lit a fag and began to walk up the hill before his bus started to roll away down the hill, several witnesses comfirmed he was off it for over 5 mins, he insisted that he’d put the hand-brake on (as i know nothing about driving a bus, wouldn’t it roll as soon as he’d removed his foot from the foot-brake?) but i understand he lost his job.
A few weeks ago in the Bournemouth Echo there was a bit of bad press about W & D’s buses being poorly maintained, after reading that article and as a member of the public who uses their buses, it worries me to think that any bus involved in an accident, whether there’s a question mark over driver error or machanical failure, goes back to the same depot to be examined, repaired and put back on the road…..is that fair to the drivers who drive them, or the public who use them?
This is just my opinion so i stand to be corrected on these issues, and i’ll get off my soap-box now i’ve had my say!
Offensive comment?
Buses are regulated by VOSA which is part of the Department for Transport. They have a much much more rigourous maintenance rquirement than most other vehicles and are subject to lots more checks by the authorities.
All buses have to be inspected regularly to laid down timescales that are set out in the companies licence to run. I believe that for Wilts and Dorset and Southern Vectis it is every 28 days. This is like an MOT check that has to be performed in a suitable workshop, with qualified people, to a set standard, and recorded and evidenced.
VOSA can stop buses anywhere anytime and spot check them. They can put a ‘prohibition’ on them for all manner of things ranging from a bulb not working, to a rip in a seat, chewing gum on a seat, right through to mechanical defects of all sorts, minor as well as major. These are recorded and are used to bring bus companies before the ‘Traffic Commissioner’ who regulates buses. Many of the prohibitions are not safety ones, but relate to the overall standard of an operator’s buses. If they are though, they are recorded differently as an ‘S’ marked prohibition. I believe that the action by the Traffic Commissioner recently for Wilts and Dorset concerned basically condition rather than safety matters.
The word from people who work for VOSA is that this bus is a Wilts and Dorset one, but had had its last MOT type check done by Southern Vectis as required within the 28 days, probably because they have been garaging buses for events across the south over on the Island. The bus was impounded by the police after the accident as was the lorry which is standard in an accident of this type. It was taken to the VOSA examination place in Cowes earlier this week, and fully examined and checked by first the Police experts then VOSA experts. The checks are really exhaustive and would also concentrate on any particular issues in question – ie brake operation. Im told that the bus had no problems at all and has been returned to Southern Vectis on behalf of Wilts and Dorset, as their managers dealt with the incident when it happened, being the local Go Ahead senior people in the area.
The bus may well have had CCTV too which the Police will probably have been given by the Managers, maybe even at the scene.
Offensive comment?
Thank you Bus Driver for this insight into how things are done.
Did you by any chance read the Bournemouth Echo’s story? If not, or for anyone else who didn’t read it, here is the outline of the story which slates W & D’s Poole depot.(quoted from the paper which i hope is ok?)……
W & D was brought before the Traffic Commissioner to explain reports of “shortcomings in the maintenance system”, defects discovered included problems with brakes, bolts missing from suspension and a jammed emergency exit.
W & D denied the allegations of unsafe vehicles and stressed the situation had improved since the checks.
At the public inquiry it was revealed that W & D had been hit with 27 “roadworthiness prohibition notices” in the last 5 years.
The random spot checks were carried out by both VOSA and Wiltshire County Council.
The Traffic Commissioner for the Western region took a dim view of W & D’s oversights, slashing the number of bus licences available to the company from 330 to 300, she said the findings raised ” comcerns over the ability of the operator to maintain their vehicles in a fit and roadworthy condition”
The RMT’s Peter Gale said “Our members are driving these buses and if they are not in tip-top condition it is a concern”.
W & D said it had made significant improvments to it’s maintenance procedures in wake of the findings and the Traffic Commissioner recognised the improvement achieved by the company since the checks were carried out.
——————–
After reading that report, i wonder if any of the drivers who have had an accident which they swear is down to mechnical problems but were told “no, you are to blame”, then been fined, suspended, sacked or whatever, will now be thinking to themselves “i know it wasn’t my fault, someone made a mechanical error which led to the accident, could that someone have been the same persom who’s “inspected” it after the accident, found their error, fixed it, then said they could find no defects with the mechanical side of things so it must be driver error, thus saving their own skin?…..i know i would be thinking along those lines!
It will be interesting to see what happens to the driver if she’s found to be at fault, especially as someone was injured in this accident.
Offensive comment?
In such an accident the bus is impounded at the scene by the Police, taken away by their recovery agents to a secure compound, and taken from there by the police for inspection by their experts. It is usually taken to a VOSA (Department for Transport) Bus MOT test station (one run by VOSA themselves, not a private one) and inspected there. In some cases it will be inspected by VOSAs own MOT examiners and expert examiners instead. They will determine whether there are any faults, and the bus company will never have been anywhere near it.
In this case the bus was examined by the Police experts first, and then the VOSA experts.
Offensive comment?
Apparently the bus has been cleared of any fault by both the Ministry and the Police.
Offensive comment?
Can you post the link/source so we can read up further into on this please.
Offensive comment?
DJ, you are wrong. Police are still investigating.
Offensive comment?
No, i’m definately right! The Police will continue examining the whole accident until they have all the evidence to give to the Crown Prosecution Service in terms of every aspect of the incident.
Specifically the bus was examined at the Cowes VOSA test station by first the Police and then VOSA experts on Tuesday. There were no faults – if there were it would have been issued with a ‘prohibition’ stopping it’s use in service until the specific fault had been repaired (as opposed to the damage) and the bus had been re-MOTed by VOSA. It wasn’t and it was released back to Southern Vectis on behalf of Wilts and Dorset on Wednesday, and taken away by them on Thursday. If there were faults it would be likely that the Police would not even have released it at all, but would have kept it as ‘evidence’ for any future potential prosecution.
Offensive comment?
Ah … my mistake. I misread your comment. You were saying that the bus itself has been cleared of any faults. Go it now.
Offensive comment?
there was a bus crash in london yesterday.
photos link at right of page.
i’m amazed there aren’t more accidents.
london bus drivers earn half the salary of tube drivers which doesn’t seem at all fair.
Offensive comment?
Yes, but those coaches are ones carrying day trippers/people from Hotels in Sandown, where they drop off on the parade, and then drive up to the coach park. The pensioners can then wander about town, and the coach will return to the parade to pick them up. Obviously Bestival buses couldn’t stop at the parade.
Route 1 was previously run with the blue squiggly lines UVG bodied Dennis Darts, which are exactly the same length as the current buses. I’ll accept that one of the rubbish old minibuses used to turn up from time to time, but they aren’t that much different.
Before the network change, route 1 was a completely different service. For a start it was limited stop, and was the only one to go on the Pontoon, and went every half hour to meet with the Red Jet.
Yes, obviously half hourly isn’t as frequent, and the minibuses coped, but double deckers ran the main stopping route 2 and 3 in the Route Rouge colours. The Newport-Cowes frequency was 5, 10, 15, so overall every ten minutes. Obviously a better service and even timing mean more people are using the buses, so the frequency has increased.
Now route 1 is the only service between Newport and Cowes, hence it runs more frequently. I don’t think SV saying route 1 will be the only route Newport-Cowes from now on and it’s staying half hourly would be too popular!
You say safety must come first, but it’s hardly that dangerous is it? There’s been one crash. As I said before, you can’t just not run stuff in case there maybe a crash some time in the future. Think of how many buses are crowded into small spaces in London, the Co-op seems calm in comparison.
Offensive comment?
I’m not suggesting reverting back to an half hour service Bob, and i’m fully aware how the coaches and the old no. 1/ Route Rouge bus service used to operate. Maybe a 10 minute service would cope and have more chance of keeping to time. The Iveco Mini buses are not quite as long as the Dennis darts and had about 10 less seats. As you rightly say, it was a limited stop service between Newport and Cowes and ran through to Ryde and Bembridge. My point is, (as you pointed out in your earlier post) when there are extra buses operating in the area because of the festival/bestival ect, there is the increased possibility of buses having to reverse to turn around. You yourself commented how dangerous this is because of pedestrains in the area. Maybe the answer during these events, is to suspend the stop outside the co-op as far as the no. 1 is concerned and make it the terminus for the special services. After all, the pontoon is only a few minutes walk away!
Offensive comment?
P.S. You did’nt have to go to the trouble writing your post out twice… I would of found the first one!
Offensive comment?
I think it would have to be more frequent than every 10 minutes to maintain the peak capacity.
The only time when extra buses are in the area is when the Festivals are on, so it’s only going to be a few people going up to the bus stop and they will stay on the pavement. It would disadvantage everyone else to just throw the number 1s out. It’s quite a steep slope for elderly people. The people waiting on the Pontoon during the strike, that I had to tell the buses were going from the Co-op, struggled to get there. (Also thankfully, the bus driver remembered not to go onto the Pontoon as then I’d have looked stupid!)
It’s only during Cowes Week when there’s loads of people swarming about in the road. Route 1 already doesn’t serve the Pontoon during Cowes Week, because there’s too many people in the High Street, so you can’t move it from the Co-op. It was only one bus that had to reverse, as the taxis were practically bad at that point. The other decker I was on squeezed around, as well as another I saw.
I do think the real problem is the taxi rank though – I’d love to know whose idea it was. And before anyone says where would the taxis go, well wherever the were before the rank was but in the bus stop!
Offensive comment?
The taxis used to squeeze into the pontoon and more often than not, block the bus lane. Its always been a problem. SV have in the past, threatend to pull out of there all together but Red Funnel don’t want them to. One thing though, if the 1′s did not stop at the co-op during the events where special buses used the bus stop, how would it be a steep slope for oap’s? Surely the pontoon would be better for them as its closer to most of the shops? And they would’nt have to walk UP to the co-op! At the end of the day, buses should not be having to reverse in that area.
Offensive comment?
3 years ago Red Funnel restricted the taxi rank in the Cowes pontoon in an exclusive deal with one Newport-based taxi operator, this caused a furore which resulted in a clamper being employed, and multiple arguments about whether what Red Funnel were doing was legal or not.
The IOW council was not willing to get involved in the dispute, so as a compromise it set up the Co-op taxi rank to replace the official one that had been in the pontoon. That’s why you see signs pointing out to the Co-op saying ‘Taxis’ in the pontoon.
The Newport-based operators agreement terminated a year ago, and now a group of Cowes operators are allowed into the Cowes pontoon, on condition they pay Red Funnel a monthly fee (or toll) to allow a restricted number of their taxis onto the pontoon rank. If they don’t pay the fee they can’t go on the rank. The only official taxi rank in Cowes is the one outside the Co-op.
Offensive comment?
Cars block the bus lane all the time anyway.
It would be a steep slope because if they got off at the Pontoon and wanted to go to the Co-op they’d have to walk back up. Stopping at both is more convenient.
As I said, I didn’t only see one bus reverse and that was only due to some badly parked vehicles. I’ve seen two buses muck up the Pontoon and have to go backwards there to have another go.
Anyway, I think that SV will drop the Pontoon stop fairly soon anyway.
Offensive comment?
Getting back to the accident. Under the heading,’Police probe Cowes bus crash’ on the web page for ‘Isle of Wight, County Press online’ September 16th, is a quote from Alex Carter, Managing Director of S.V. & W&D. about the female driver. “She has many years of experience as a p.s.v. driver and is fully qualified.” What he fails to mention, as I said in a previous comment, is that since becoming a member of the management at Poole depot roughly 3 years ago, she has done very little driving, therefore I would dispute the phrase, ‘fully qualified’.
Offensive comment?
What are you actually alleging then. That a trained PCV driver isn’t safe to drive a bus unless they’ve been driving one for how long? How would anyone get the experience then? Are you saying newly qualified drivers aren’t safe? You’re not really making much sense. Moreover, who says that experience or not had anything to do with the accident?
Offensive comment?
Well the bus has been given the all clear apparently which means it must be driver error dos’nt it?
Offensive comment?
I’m not sure that anyone has been cleared or otherwise by any authority.
When DJ commented “cleared of any fault by both the Ministry and the Police” (above), I wrote to DJ two days ago to find the source of their comment, both publicly and privately, but they’ve haven’t replied.
It’s always fact checking these things.
The last I saw, the police were still investigating.
Offensive comment?
Police _are_ still involved.
We got in touch with the Police and they gave us this statement …
Police continue to investigate this collision. It is no longer being treated as a life-threatening incident. The 49-year-old Cowes man remains in hospital, following surgery. The 46-year-old Romsey man has been released from hospital.
Offensive comment?
What I am saying is, that as mentioned in one of my previous comments, she admitted when she got back to Poole was that she got out of the bus to talk to another driver and the bus started to roll down the hill. Untill moving abroad I had been a p.s.v. driver for more than 40 years in London & Poole. Having been out of the game for 3 years I would expect to have had a refresher course, which she did not have and also a lot of route learning. What I’m talking about is this particular driver, who is known to me, and her previous driving record. Also as Sailor Sam says, if the bus has been given the all clear, who is to be blamed. All I’m trying to do is give you an insight to this particular driver.
Offensive comment?
Is it correct that this particular bus has an unusual hand brake application method ?
I am led to believe that it involves pulling the brake back and lifting. If you have not completed the lift action the brake is not correctly applied.
If this is correct, was the driver specifically trained to drive this bus ?
Offensive comment?
No, you don’t have to ‘lift’ the lever to apply the handbrake, only to release it.
Offensive comment?
Well I have little faith in Alex Carter to be honest. I have written to him on a couple of occasions in the past (ovder 18 months ago) and he did’nt have the decency to respond. Very un-proffesional!
Offensive comment?
First of all, in answer to Nobby, this particular driver has been type-trained on this vehicle. And I can confirm what sailor sam has said, the head of the handbrake only has to be lifted to release it. As for Alex Carter, he has had to defend the driver, to protect the company from any possible, future, civil action. Regardless of any future disciplinary action against the driver.
Offensive comment?
As I gather from reading an article from the IOW Gazette the woman bus driver was sacked.
Nice! soon as summit goes wrong, sack them and cover your own donkey!
Clarkee
Offensive comment?
Sorry Clarkee but I don’t see what you are trying to say here. At the end of the day the driver is responsible for the bus while it is on the road, not the bus company.
Offensive comment?
For the information of everybody that may be interested. The female driver, Ms. Sandra Wulf at a disciplinary enquiry last week, admitted that the bus was left unattended with the hand-brake off. She was then sacked on the spot. She was not as some intimated, made a scapegoat. She was as I said all along, guilty. Perhaps now, your beautiful island will be safer without people like her driving on it.
Offensive comment?
Since re-instated on appeal!
Offensive comment?
Can anyone enlighten me as to why was she re-instated if she was at fault?
I don’t understand W & D’s “procedures” when they sack someone for an accident (see no7 above) which resulted in no casulties and very little damage being caused, and re-instate someone who’s had an accident which has resulted in injuries to members of the public, and for which the driver has admitted she was at fault.
It seems like an injustice to me, but maybe there’s more to it and W & D could find themselves in big trouble leagally if they sacked her when her job is office related and not driving.
I bet the sacked driver must be feeling very aggrieved if he knows anything about this accident, how would you feel if you were the sacked driver?…..how i would feel is unprintable on here, needless to say i wouldn’t be a happy chappie!
My late father-in-law had been a bus driver for many years when i first met him way back in the 70′s and he used to say “regardless of past accident records, no two drivers would get the same punishment even though the “crimes” were the same”…..seems nothing changes!
Offensive comment?
The trouble is the act of leaving the handbrake of (as in comment no.7 too) is a very serious one, think what could happen. Hence they sacked that driver.
I would suspect that Wilts & Dorset have had to reinstate the Cowes crash driver because she is in office work. As you said, the legal issues could be severe and I doubt the unions would be happy.
Offensive comment?
[...] notable was the big Bestival bus crash, where I accidentally ended up writing the story for VentnorBlog, (unexpected but exciting), and providing [...]
Offensive comment?
I partly agree with Sailor Sam. At the end of the day the driver is responsible for his / her vehicle. No excuses.
Offensive comment?