Author: simon
Andrew Turner’s MP Expenses: Detail: UPDATED
Tuesday, 19th May, 2009 at 5:39 pm, Isle of Wight
Following the release of the statement from Andrew Turner on his expenses, here’s some the detail provided.
Andrew Turner has a flat in London, close to the House of Commons, and a house in Newport.
His Newport house is claimed under MP expenses as his second home, this he said was based “on the number of nights I spent in each place at the time that I made the nomination, as this was the definition set out in the rules.”
For the lifetime of this Parliament, his main house has always been Newport London (blimey this stuff is confusing), unlike other MPs who have been accused of ‘flipping home,’ between first and second homes, also alternating the houses they were claiming for. His second home was listed as Newport.
He and his partner Carole also co-own a tenanted flat in Cowes, which he hasn’t submitted claims for.
He says that he always submitted receipts, or other documentary evidence, for every purchase under this allowance, even those for under £25, which under the current rules do not require any proof.
He also pointed out that, “I could also claim £4,800 a year for food but, as you can see from the above, I have not.”
Accommodation costs allowance breakdown
He’s also broken down his Accommodation Costs Allowance, which has caused such controversy with some other MPs.
Travel expenses
Andrew Turner states that “Daily commuting is not an option as the Commons sits until 10.30pm on Mondays and Tuesdays, 7.30pm on Wednesdays and 6.30pm on Thursdays.”
Detailing more on his travel expenses …
In terms of the other allowances available to me as an MP, in the year ending 2008 I claimed £7,870 for travel.
I could claim for the cost of first class rail travel but I invariably travel second class which means that my travel costs, even including ferry costs, are lower than some MPs who represent nearby constituencies on the mainland.
Staff travel costs (between the Island and Westminster) amounted to £976.
Office costs
The total costs of running his office were £108,842, including employing four full time staff, one of which is his partner Carole.
Interestingly, no money was paid to the local Conservative association as has happened with other MPs, who on Sunday’s The Independent have accused of using public money to subsidise political parties.
MPs’ comment on others expenses
Commenting on the current MPs’ expenses situation he said
I agree the system of MPs allowances has been widely discredited. I will not comment on what colleagues of all parties are reported to have claimed but I am very sad that it has caused so much damage to public confidence in our democracy.
For myself, I accept my hare of the responsibility and admit I am embarrassed by it all. It has been a very uncomfortable time but I hope you will now have a clearer understanding of my own position and in a few weeks the complete records will be published.
If you want the full details, read Andrew Turner’s document (pdf).
Related posts:
- Andrew Turner On His MP Expenses – Statement
Below is the statement from Andrew Turner on his expenses.... - Looking at MP Andrew Turner’s Expenses In Detail: UPDATED
VB trawls through each of the invoices detailed in the... - MP Andrew Turner To Repay Some Expenses (Update 3)
Following the review of MPs expenses, by Sir Thomas Legg,... - Andrew Turner Responds to Kelly MP Expenses Report
Full response from Andrew Turner.... - Telegraph MP Expenses Spotlight Turns On Andrew Turner: Full Details
Andrew Turner received _the_ letter from the Telegraph asking detailed...
Email This Story To A Friend
The governemnt should refurbish and manage a block of flats near to parliament and issue these to MP’s. This second home thing is all a scam. These people are employees of the people and should be paid London waiting like the rest of the people who work in London. How they can justify and utility bills, council tax and repairs when they earn the money they do is beyond me.
His staff should be paid by the governmnet, not by him. I don’t dispute he needs 4 staff or that £25K is an unreasonable wage for a London PA, but they should be interviewed,employed and paid by the government.
(Report comment)
A Bedtime Story
A quick browse through the black and white (far more black than white) of Andrews expenses, and I noted an interesting entry in white, obviously I could not see any items in black; and has I am suffering double cataracts, I may have seen nothing at all:-)
Five foot, LINIUM Headboard £90.00
Five foot, Cygnet Headboard £119.00
Now this could indicate a King size bed in two rooms or two King size beds in one room,
Or had one head board just been exchanged, one for one?
This is when total transparency does help everyone.
(Report comment)
I’m not a Conservative, but Andrew Turner strikes me as an honest citizen, probably more so than some of the journalists who are making hay with this information. The editor of the Daily Mail, a paper currently revelling in the discomfiture of MP’s, has very interesting record (published in Private Eye), so pots and kettles come to mind!
(Report comment)
We want an islander to represent us at Westminster – Not someone sent here by the Conservative Central Office. OK Andrew is not a bad sort of chap and does try, but behind every man is a very good woman pulling the strings:-)
We should have more say in who is SELECTED to represent us. Fat too many Tory toffs and Trade unionists. Most Ministers and those in opposition are millionaires; what do they care about Joe Bloggs?
(Report comment)
You do have sufficient “say” in who represents your constituency. We live in a democracy. It’s called “a vote”. You have voting rights.
If you want a change in a leader use your vote. If there isnt anyone who you would choose to vote for then why not put yourself up for election.
(Report comment)
The people put up for election are selected by a chosen few – It’s either Tory, Labour or the also rans – We can only vote for who are selected by a very small minority, that’s the way it’s been for centuries. If I was to stand I would just get a few votes because the powerful party machines would see to that. They select the yes men/women; they have no voice of their own – Follow the Whip or else. Is this democracy? I’m sick to the teeth of Etonians and Trade Unionist calling the tune, And the latter soon change their cloth caps to bowlers after a few years on the gravy trains.
(Report comment)
I should make it clear that I am a fan of Andrew Turner despite his politics
(Report comment)
Why does his mortgage interest rise each year? I understood mortgages rates were falling year on year. So does that mean Andrew has been increasing his mortgage i.e an interest free loan!
(Report comment)
We’ve chatted to Carole from Andrew’s office who is on her way back to the Island from Parliament.
The quick explanation she gave us sounded very reasonable.
She said she’d put a comment on here when she gets back on the Island, later today.
(Report comment)
Who is our Member of Parliament. I never voted for a woman.
(Report comment)
The Conservative Head Quarters on Carisbrooke Road has thee storeys and at least a dozen room?
Who owns this large property and could it not be put to better use. A luxury flat for our Mp and his partner, perhaps? I am sure that despite all the adverse reports and comments about booze. expenses. etceteras. Mr turner MP will be returned, along with his partner. However, I do not agree that wife’s, Siblings and partners should be in the employment of MPs – All posts should be advertised.
(Report comment)
The mortgage has been with the same lender since a straight remortgage in 2004/5. There was no additional borrowing; the remortgage was simply to get a better ‘deal’. It is a tracker mortgage linked to the bank base rate which was chosen on the advice of a broker.
The figure shown is for the year ending March 2008, interest rates have fallen since then and the interest figure for the next year 2008/9) is less than £10,000. The only change in the outstanding mortgage balance is that it has fallen slightly as the monthly payment includes capital and interest – it is only the interest part that has been reclaimed.
I hope that answers the question.
(Report comment)
can you ask him to pay my mortgage too…after all I pay his mortgage, and utilities, and repairs.
Would the job of serving the people be so attractive if it was just based on a wage, I wonder?
(Report comment)
So Andrew was claiming Newport as his second home even when his was recovering from his illness and living there full time!
Quite simple really, I suspect he was claiming for the home that gave him the most in expenses.
(Report comment)
Just who is the person ‘Posting’ under the name of
‘Andrew Turners Office?’ transparency and openness starts at this address, or it should do.
(Report comment)
You must be a relative or an old pal from Eton – Rugby perhaps:-).
(Report comment)
The CP says, “He revealed he registered his Newport home as his second home, with a property in London as his main address.”
The VB says, “For the lifetime of this Parliament, his main house has always been Newport…..”
Am I being obtuse or are these two statements at odds with each other? I’m sure someone will tell me.
(Report comment)
Not obtuse, facts is facts. We got it the wrong way around. Now corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.
(Report comment)
Thanks Simon.
Generally
I can see no problems in his statement (number of nights etc., being within the rules) but isn’t this exactly what the Telegraph, Mail, BBC have been calling “flipping” all be it marginal flipping or perhaps tending towards a flip.
I can’t see problems if the rules have been complied with as I am sure they will have been here but so have many others, complied, who have been shammed in the media.
So the rules are wrong but at least there are rules and I would guess that the numbers who are grossly flipping are very few. Surely the rules can be re-drafted without all this fuss. Or perhaps it is just too close to an election.
(Report comment)
No, this is not so called flipping. Flipping is where parliamentarians confuse their job with being a property developer going from one ’second home’ to the next and doing the developing at our expense. They then tell the tax man it is their primary property, thereby evading tax. It’s a double wammy.
(Report comment)
“just too close to an election.”
Which one? The EU, the council or a possible general one?
I was rather amused this afternoon to hear Uncle Gordon rule out a snap general election as he maintained that the Tories would make a hash of things! I’m not sure he thought that one through…
(Report comment)
Better the Devil you know! Far too many Toffs and Trade Unionist. Cameron in, and within three months
everyone will regret it, and there is no turning back for four years. However, before then we could have a revolution.
(Report comment)
There surely is only one reason his second home
is now Newport, that’s because he wants to make sure he gets as much as possible in expenses. Sadly all MP’s are at it, some worse than others.
(Report comment)
Wow! You are determined to tarnish his reputation aren’t you, regardless of the facts which have been clearly laid out in this blog. Andrew Turner did not by any stretch of the imagination claim all the expenses he could. He did campaign for changes to the system and freedom of this information long before this blew up in parliaments face. Perhaps you might consider that Andrew Turner is an actual person like you. I doubt if you would want some disempowered twit on the internet talking in such a derogatory way about you without actually being informed of the salient facts.
(Report comment)
What the hell’s the matter with you big ears? Of all derogetory remarks on this blog about our wonderful Mr Turner you pick on mine to be abusive. Firstly I was not saying anything other than the facts by claiming his island home is his 2nd home he will get more, fact. In his own statement he clearly felt uncomfortable with it because he was suggesting he would have changed back but thought his claim lasted for the duration of the parliament, fact. As I said some are at it worse than others, he as it happens is one of the better MP’s, who I’ve met on many occasions. Lowering yourself to name calling is pathetic. Try to accept Big Ears that everyone is entitled to their opinion and if it differs with your’s so what , who says your right all the time?
(Report comment)
When Andrew retires, and he will one day. He will own a property in London and two properties on the IoW. How can this be justified?
(Report comment)
I do wish contributors to this thread would have the courage to give their names. For example ‘Big Ears’ I suspect could be… A person with a personal interest in avoiding true transparency.
Even a ‘post’ from the MPs office could have been written by anyone. Time to be up-front and stop hiding behind non de plumes.
(Report comment)
Poor old Andrew! Caught up in the scandal of so many dodgy and absent minded Mp’s. Is it any wonder so many good ones want to quit? The intrusion and laying bare of anyones finances is quite a big ask.
Yes name and shame the dodgy characters, but it’s clear Mr Turner isn’t one of them. For instance he paid for his own kitchen (!) and not a penny claimed for food, I see Nick Clegg was claiming the maximum amount. I for one am glad we haven’t been paying £100 a week to feed our Mp even if it was his ‘right’ to claim.
As for the expenses, surely if the rule is to declare your ‘home’ as the place you spend the most nights his London flat must be his home? It isn’t fair to blame him for following the guidelines to the letter.
Most people think Andrew Turner is a hard working honest man doing his best to represent Britain’s biggest constituency. Only time will tell if islanders wish to punish him because of wrongdoing by other Mp’s. If they do it will be very unfair.
(Report comment)
Wow am I agreeing with The Doc????? Where are my tablets!!
(Report comment)
Poor old Andrew. Don’t make me laugh. In the same year this spectacularly useless MP claimed £137,000 in expense, my old mum, suffering form cancer of the spine, died while waiting for a grant of £6,000 to make her bathroom more accessible. Turner, like all his kind, are taking the mickey, and the sooner he’s out of a job, the better.
(Report comment)
If you agree with the Doc. you certainly need some form of medication:-)
(Report comment)
He will not be punished, he already has egg on his face; others have let him down. People will not vote because our politicians have lost all credibility. Labour, Tory or any of the others, they are all the same.
Mark my words, if more become unemployed, the crime rate will rise, unions will start to disrupt and there will be rioting.
We need a complete clear out at Westminster.
(Report comment)
The sad part about this is that MPs will be smeared by misunderstanding which will no doubt be reflected in voting results and influencing others. I do wish people would make sure they fully understand the facts before making a misjudgement and acting on it because its somehow the thing to do to be seen to making negative accusations and spinning everything.
(Report comment)
Janet,
Who do you work for?
(Report comment)
Why do you need to know? Ah ha, you think I work for Andrew Turner? Call Andrew Turner’s office and ask for Janet if you are so intrigued.
I dont work for anyone, now.
To the person who stated they wished Janet would try living on benefits. I have! I know all about it.
I have also educated myself whilst working, that’s studying whilst working in case you need it clarified.
I receive a state pension and I have to live on it as well as paying my mortgage otherwise I would be homeless. Now is that sufficient hardship to meet your scrutiny? Try living on a bowl of rice a day.
(Report comment)
Janet,
I asked who you worked for, it was you who made mention of our MP. You do very well to pay your mortgage, just being on the state pension, I do not know how you manage. However, it would be nice for you if you had the mortgage paid for you by the tax payer; but I take it you’re not an MP.
Conway; Sorry Janet I should have given him his full title: ‘The (Honourable) Derek Conway MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup.’ You must have heard of him Janet.
Yes! ‘The (Honourable) Derek Conway MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup.’ Brought the issue to light, I shall not bore you with all the dishonest details. You say we can do nothing about it. I disagree, we must never let them forget that we know. I want to see some heads roll.
Mr Cameron and Brown have been telling us how they are going to change the things for the better. One of the first things Mr Cameron is going to do is bring back fox hunting. Now that’s what I call a top priority:-)
(Report comment)
Andrew Turner, unlike many other MPs does not say he ‘claimed within the rules’, he says he did not understand the rules on second home claims, believing there could be no redesignation during the lifetime of a parliament (see County Press). More openness would be welcome – information about his main residence in London, why he needed to claim for repairs and maintenance at the taxpayers’ expense and why he was slow to disclose (see letter in County Press. In the present climate it’s perfectly fair to seek maximum disclosure. And if he wants to be truly open then show the expenses that pre-date the freedom of information request.
(Report comment)
Why does Andrew Turner need to buy a home on the Island (and then claim for it) when he and his partner have a flat they could live in? If he lived in the flat it would save the tax payer a lot of money! It is obviously a way of ‘cashing’ in’ and, while I appreciate he does work hard for the Island, he is still ‘cashing in’ at our expense.
I was going to vote conservative for the first time ever but now have second thoughts.
(Report comment)
Having written before I dont think any one would blame a claim whilst suffering from a life threatening claim. Let those without weakness cast the first stone. There are too many people claiming benefits when they shouldnt be to say they are made of better stuff.
(Report comment)
But if you claim benefits by fraud or you forget or you do not understand the rules you are prosecuted.
Not one MP has been prosecuted – not one! And many have been guilty of fraud; you do not need to be a lawyer to fathom that out.
And remember, members of the House of Lords are doing the same things.
(Report comment)
Janet, Yes there are benefit cheats but unlike MPs
if they are found out they will be prosecuted.
Take Conway MP for example, he’s still an MP, still receiving his allowances and expenses and when he quits or loses his seat he will receive a pension of £32,000 a year. Would a benefit cheat be rewarded so generously?
(Report comment)
The serious “offenders” who have been blatantly obtaining capital by deceit should face very serious consequences.
However, by carrying out localised witch hunts we are in danger of casting into the same league as their dishonest and fraudulent colleagues, those decent, hard working members who claimed more modest “authorised “expenses.
I don’t see any positive mileage in further frenzied national witch hunting over this issue. Yes, of course, the public has a right to know but this has been going on, the bomb went off, it has come out in the open ,heads are already rolling and measures are being taken to prevent re occurrences. By carrying on squeezing the issue as tightly as possible, we’ll permanently damage the rest of the system. Whilst I’m sure they’ve never worried about me I could quite understand the more upstanding folk at Westminster becoming despondent.
It has been a cross-party issue so general partisan fire lighting is extinguished at ignition. Therefore it should be halted, a line drawn in the sand and move on.
An election wouldn’t go amiss. (Not until Uncle Nick has swapped his worktops for Ikea though. Have a word Jill.)
Perspective wise, supposedly, you are never more than 20 feet away from a furry friend. This rule can also be generalised towards benefit cheats who cost the UK 2 billion a year.
(Report comment)
andrew’s account is fair IMHO.
i’m impressed that he travels second class – if i were an elected MP i’d want a special pullman train reserved for me and permanently stationed outside portsmouth with a retinue of on-board servants ready and willing to pander to my every desire.
seriously – this expenses farrago is being over-egged IMHO.
i agree with stephen fry – http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12560.html#
i think a more legitimate criticism of MPs could be made regarding their lack of intellectual rigour.
a lot of them seem dozy in the extreme!!
(Report comment)
Yes! Dozy – Yet most of them are millionaires.
And when Andrew has his three properties valued he also will be a millionaire.
(Report comment)
I respect Stephen Fry immensely but having read to the foot of his article I saw links to other pages with headlines about MPs expenses, I fail to see what relevance there is in reporting about MPs who are gay who have got their sums wrong.
I do feel that it is about time someone take a responsible attitude and moved to getting it resolved without any more tit for tat argument.
Those who have been found not have their books in order irrespective of their politics ought to be dealt with by the Commissioners for Inland Revenue.
(Report comment)
pink news is a gay news web site – i guess that’s why they were interested in gay MPs in exactly the same way an angling news web site would presumably be interested in tracking any angling MPs – and lijkewise with any other special interest groups.
(Report comment)
Strange that the home in newport is listed as his second home, my front door looks over to his front door and he’s always there.
(Report comment)
Deneo: We’ve only got your word for what you say.
Now, vote as you will, its your right. Be honest and truthful and accept the findings of the Inland Revenue. Dont smear because the journalists are suggesting what they cant prove. When all this is over and members of the British public are still claiming benefits when they have no right to do so, as they have done for a very long time, what part will you play in bringing them down I wonder?
(Report comment)
Yes you have my word on it madam…
And by the way are you the Andrew Turner gatekeeper???
(Report comment)
To be honest i wont be voting at all..
All governments claim to do this or that when they get into power but its the same old “New World Order” agenda..
The bankers run the country..not MP’s..
The times are gone that people believe in politics and politicians and what power they really have.
There is no such thing as politics, its just a big game show for the sheep to play..
(Report comment)
For you janet..
You said what part would i play in bringing down the people that claim benefits that have no right to do so..
Well let me ask you this?
When you were born your parents were told they must register you..”Must” also means “may”..anyway when you were given a birth cert the govenment then trade it on the market for loans..
do you agree with this? being bonded into debt at birth?
(Report comment)
Well now, since you ask about when I was born: No, the Registrar rushed into the room and asked for a name in case my mother and I did not survive.
I’m not sure quite where you are coming from about my birth certificate being traded for loans. I will give you a bit more information about me: I have an Identity Card! Now, how ’bout that?!
It’s for you to do what you will with your life. As for me I studied whilst I was at work so that I would be able to pay my mortgage.
There was a time when the Bank of England was controlled by the government but Tony Blair gave the Bank of England its independence.
If you vote you have the right to complain about politicians. If you dont exercise that right you relinquish much.
(Report comment)
You see you know nothing of the real world janet, you dont even understand the birth cert scam and how we are born into debt.
You made me laugh with your quote on: “If i dont vote i dont have the right to complain” ha ha ha.
And you have an Identity Card, all that means is that you dont care much about your human rights.
Go here Janet http://www.tpuc.org and read about the real world..you might even learn something..
(Report comment)
Irrelevant to Andrew Turner and the expenses situation.
(Report comment)
Well your whole thread to me is nothing about Mr Turner Janet..Are you running out of smart one liners?
Thought so..run along now and play with someone else that doesnt know the score…
(Report comment)
programme on radio 4 last night.
Last broadcast yesterday, 20:00 on BBC Radio 4.
Sunday, 21:30 on BBC Radio 4
Synopsis
Simon Cox gets behind the headlines engulfing MPs about their expenses and explores how the system of allowances was allowed to get out of control. The programme charts the origin of the row back to the enactment of freedom of information laws and reveals how proposed changes, which could have averted the crisis, were repeatedly thwarted by MPs themselves.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00kk0xr
———-
all these expenses issues strike me as trivial and peripheral to the real problems facing britain.
there’s nothing worse than the great british public parading their sanctimony as if they themselves lived lives of impeccable probity.
(Report comment)
“there’s nothing worse than the great british public parading their sanctimony as if they themselves lived lives of impeccable probity”
Well said. Reversing the spotlight onto a few newspaper proprietors might be revealing, too!
(The owners of the Telegraph, the Barclay Brothers, are famous for avoiding tax, as is Rupert Murdoch, of course.)
WRT the MP’s, I think enough is enough. We are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I am satisfied that the majority, including Andrew Turner, have behaved honourably and those who haven’t have mostly fallen on their swords. Time to move on – it’s not as if the country doesn’t still need governing!
(Report comment)
Similarly as I referrred earlier, the British benefit claiming public is not so squeaky clean.
(Report comment)
For some reason you keep harping on about the british public claiming benefits..Do i smell “Common Purpose” in motion…
(Report comment)
smells like teen delusion….
Janets point is that none of us are without ’sin’ and as JP says, this all needs to blow over very quickly so we can all get back to doing what we do best…creating another scapegoat for another crime, real or imaginary..whose next on the conspirital conveyor belt. hahahhahah
There is no point in playing with someone who knows the score…because they don’t really know…only think they do, but they make very boring team members.
(Report comment)
Agreed, go back to curtain twitching..you may hit pay dirt and the friendly neighbourhood scapegoat kicks your milk bottles over.
(Report comment)
Janet,
You state that you pay your mortgage and you only receive the state pension – May I respectfully suggest that you seek advice from the CAB or Help the Aged. I am positive you will be entitled to some form of social benefit – then you may enjoy a bit of fish with the rice:-)
(Report comment)
and another further update
I would have thought that the amount he paid his staff, they would all be very highly qualified and not require NVQ’s
(Report comment)
Considering the sometimes highly confidential and sensitive nature of the work that some constituents take to a Member of Parliament would require office staff who are not the average secretary. £27,000 including travelling expenses is not excessive I would have thought.
(Report comment)
I just hope that we have some guarantee that if this happens in the future we have protections in law ensuring MPs accountability – lets have a recall law in the UK that allows the people to call for a new vote when an MP has broken their trust.
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/recall/
(Report comment)
I agree 100% – This would go a long way in ensuring they act within the rules – Hear we go again – They always act within the rules. And when they don’t they say it was an oversight, ” Sorry, I’ll pay it back”‘ ” Fair cop! I’ll stand down at the next General Election and draw my £32,000 a year pension. And before I go I’ll fit in a few more Jollies to the Far East and Florida for my
wife/partner and I.
(Report comment)
I think we have to insist that who ever is responsible for approving or not approving MPs claims for expenses knows that they have to do their job properly in the first place!
Secondly, the Commissioners of Inland Revenue have remedies for fraud.
We ought to be able to have a trust in them all.
Otherwise of course we exercise our democratic right not to vote for them again.
(Report comment)
Janet wrote[The Commissioners of Inland Revenue have remedies for fraud.]
What remedies have they taken to date, especially in regard to Conway MP?
(Report comment)
Conway? Is that a person’s name or a place? Conway in North Wales perhaps?
(Report comment)
Janet,
Yes! Conway is in North Wales, but I did write ‘Conway MP’ and that is not in North Wales.
Ask ‘Jeeves’ I may be wrong.
(Report comment)
Conwy :)
(Report comment)
ok, so why is it that MP’s are allowed to claim £92.30 per week for food when the same government states that for the purposes of benefits eg jobseekers allowance and income support, claimants only need £65 (ish) per week to live on and out of this they must pay all utilities, food, tv license, run a car, clothe themselves… the list goes on.
bloody hipocrisy.
(Report comment)
The MP is a servant of the public and run up expenses in the course of their day to day work. The level of benefits an individual person is allowed is that which just covers a person to be able to live from day to day either because they are sick or they are at home without a job. That’s the difference. Benefits are not paid so that someone has a standard of living where they might consider not getting a job at all. That would be outrageous wouldnt it.
(Report comment)
The MPs are already being paid an ample wage, I agree that getting £92.30 on top of that for food allowance is ludicrous, and milking the system.
You appear to be suggesting that being sick or unable to secure work (174 vacancies in total on the island) makes you a second class citizen who deserves to struggle for existence.
I notice the ease with which MPs describe the unemployed as “sponging off society” when it suits them to do so. Yet are these people not claiming benefits they are fully entitled to?
There happens to be very rigorous system in place, which often treats you as a pariah for being in the position of seeking employment, to check that you qualify for benefits you claiming.
(Report comment)
We must be grateful to the MOLE and the Daily Telegraph for bringing these fiddles into the public domain – Otherwise they would have carried on cheating ‘Within the Rules’ of course and getting more greedy.
We need a complete clear out because the majority are tarnished, All three party leaders have had their noses in the trough, so for them to criticize
other cheats amongst their ranks make them hypocrites of the highest order.
(Report comment)
As Parkes Browne said, “A little on the side”.
This is what over claiming on expenses is all about.
(Report comment)
I wish Janet would try living on benefits, she would soon change her views and maybe her political party.
(Report comment)
You assume that’s the problem. You and others keep dig dig digging away at this topic which should have been laid to rest a long time ago. It surfaced in May 2009 for the sake of accuracy. You could put your energies to better use. Why keep on about it when you cant do anything about it.
MPs expenses were submitted for payment and if they were paid they were legitimate. If they werent legitimate because the rules of MPs expenses were ambiguous there’s nothing Andrew Turner can do about it.
I suspect you and others posting here 4 months after the fact would have done the same.
(Report comment)
With our democracy in crisis; how can the Prime Minister send unelected people to the House of Lords; namely: Peter Mandelson, Mr Alan Sugar and recently resigned (how convenient) MEP Mrs Glynis Kinnock?
Now Mr Cameron (If he becomes PM) is to appoint an unelected retired army general to become a Peer; who will no doubt soon become a minister. Lucky them; they are now all boarding a new gravy train.
It is reported that Mr Cameron is taking the high ground – pity he did not take the high ground with (Honourable) MP Conway, that was a great error of judgement on his part or was he worrying about his own claims?
Remember, Mr Cameron is a multi-millionaire with a mortgage: A MULTI_MILLIONAIRE with a mortgage!
Why are the police not bringing the guilty to the courts? Could it be that the ‘Top Cops’ are in line for knighthoods or Peerages?
I am afraid things will get worse – It is not all the fault of the PM, he did not sign all the receipts; each MP will have to take full responsibility for his or her own actions.
How Ruth Kelly (Labour MP for Bolton West) has avoided prosecution? Well I do – It would lead to dozens of prosecutions. The easy way out for them all is to stand down at the next General election for family reasons:-)
(Report comment)
Questions all right but hardly relevant to the subject heading. Wouldnt it be a good idea to change the subject heading because your post might get more responses if you do.
(Report comment)
Janet,
I telephoned the office and surprise, surprise. A young lady answered, “Hello! This is Janet, can I help?” :-)
I am not interested in responses, only the ones from you make it all worth while:-)
I admit I am guilty of encouraging debate, however, isn’t debate why forums exist?
PS: no mention of **s.
Did you contact the CAB?
(Report comment)
Whether or not Andrew Turner has someone working for him with the same name as mine is irrelevant. I do not work for Andrew Turner.
I do not appreciate my name being dragged into this Forum after 4 months to stir this topic, as it was five days ago, assuming that I had not claimed benefits in my life. You also make other assumptions which have not been relevant nor appropriate.
As someone else said months ago, the subject of Andrew’s expenses ought to have “blown over”. If you did some research it would work to enhance the purpose of the forum.
(Report comment)
Please Janet read the news or listen to the news on TV – The MPs expenses saga is just beginning; and rightly so.
Janet at the office, was a joke, i did not expect you to take it seriously.
(Report comment)
It has been reported that at least 325 MPs will be ordered this week to repay money or provide further details of their parliamentary allowances by the head of an official inquiry into the Commons expenses scandal. There will be envelopes on their desks this Monday morning.
About time! Will there be any prosecutions?
It was reported in the (CP 09.10.09) that an IoW woman who cheated the social out of £1000s faces imprisonment, and deservedly so. Will MPs receive the same justice? Pigs can fly!
(Report comment)
Don, Perhaps it would be sensible to wait until we see who has the letters tomorrow and what action is proposed.
Have you left the Council’s forum?
(Report comment)
No I have not left the IoW Council Forum, if I left who else would be left? :-) :-)
The main reason I do not ‘Post’ as often is for two reasons.
1 The ‘Posts’ take far too long to be moderated and published.
2. Just like the CP the IoW Council Forum is very reluctant to allow discussion on politics. The CP (as you must be aware) is more right-wing than Sir Stanley Mathews:-)
Considering what the island MP spends with the CP for his printing etceteras, I am not surprised the CP and the MP are good friends:-)
(Report comment)
I too gave up on the Councils forum about the time that they changed to the new system…it was bad, then became worse
(Report comment)
Your comment: Considering what the island MP spends with the CP for his printing etceteras, I am not surprised the CP and the MP are good friends:-)
I suspect you would be the first to criticise any MP who makes an enemy of the Local Press. You cant have it both ways!
(Report comment)
Sorry LP I got carried away with my comments on the Forum question you asked.
Envelopes on the desks – Just more time wasting. I note, already one senior MP is complaining about whether if it’s all lawful, (within the brief.) They’ll drag it on, until they hope that all is forgotten.
I honestly believe that just, maybe, a couple of heads will roll. Most of the big time cheats, and there are many, will or have already announced that they will not seek re-election at the next General Election – however, none of these will lose their very generous pensions.
Crime does not pay:-)
MEPs expenses are next on the agenda, mark my words. The suspect shredders have been in continual motion for months now. I do not jest.
(Report comment)
Yesterday Janet wrote [As someone else said months ago, the subject of Andrew’s expenses ought to have “blown over”. If you did some research it would work to enhance the purpose of the forum.]
Then today Janet writes[As to your advice to me, once again, to say “Please Janet read the news……….” I had already seen that news, and it was precisely why I stated “If you did some research it would work to enhance the purpose of the forum.”
‘Blown over’? Stone the crows.
(Report comment)
I note what you say. I didnt seriously think you would phone Andrew Turner’s office.
As to your advice to me, once again, to say “Please Janet read the news……….” I had already seen that news, and it was precisely why I stated “If you did some research it would work to enhance the purpose of the forum.”
(Report comment)
What the Standards Commission said about Jaqui Smith:
“She should have exercised the discretion given in the rules to identify the residence she shared with her family in her constituency as her main home ”
Surely same should be said for AT
(Report comment)
The government’s Fees Office pays the expenses. They should not have approved them if they were not legitimate. It is not necessarily the MPs’ fault if invoices were approved that should not have been. There’s a great deal of information out there to find instead of hot air. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/12/mps-expenses-concern
(Report comment)
That is actually glossing over the fact that the Commission expected the MP’s to ‘act with discretion’..possibly expecting MP’s to actually have morals.
You are quite correct, because it proved they have no morals
(Report comment)
I disagree. Anyone who is entitled to claim expenses at their place of work submits the claim for approval. Some one is employed to do the job of approving them, or rejecting them. The Fees Office of the Government approved them. There was written legislation about what fees the MPs could claim. The legislation was not written clearly, it happens when Law is written. It has to be “read” and its the Readers whose interpretation of written law often get things wrong. Its why there is so much law on the statute books nowadays. The Fees Officer was ultimately to blame for actually paying the expenses that were claimed because the MP thought they could claim. I will agree the expenses we have been given to understand that have been settled have been downright ridiculous but they should never have been paid. Let not any one off the hook if you really want blood if your own thought processes are not equally flawed!
(Report comment)
irrelevent…MP’s were expected to use their discretion…..obviously the rules were written by an idiot.
All the MP’s did was try to prove they had no discretion.
All your posts are proving is that MP’s manipulated a loophole to their benefit and that loophole was an expectation that Mp’s would be honest
(Report comment)
Janet get real – Many MPs have acted dishonestly.
If you can’t see this you’re blind.
Rules are rules I agree, however, if you place your hand into fire you will get burned.
Plain and simple; many MPs and yes! MEPs, have just thought they could all get away with it.
None of the three main party leaders are fit for purpose and this reflects on why our once great country… It has gone to the dogs.
If you can’t trust MPs, just who can you trust?
They are all going to get off Scot free.
We need a new breed of representatives, ones who are not tied to the apron stings of a party machine.
Are there any good, honest, independent candidates out there? We need a fresh start.
(Report comment)
And all you are doing is failing to consider what a reader might have to say and to look at whole story for the purposes of a healthy debate. In so doing you are having your readers believe you are holier than thou and wouldnt have been caught in anything like.
(Report comment)
One final comment: Had I been guilty of fraud, I would have expected to have been punished.
No more ‘Ping Pong Janet.
21-5 – 21-2 Game over. I win:-)
(Report comment)
That’s the problem as far as I can see it. You are only prepared to listen to yourself rather than encourage healthy debate. Game over for your purposes, I’m out of here. LOL.
(Report comment)
I’ll have the last word then…If Jaqui Smith is going to apologise for ‘following the rules’ but showing little discretion…thenI will expect to read about Andrew Turners apology to the electorate of the Isle of Wight who paid for his unfair dismissal payout, his life classes for staff and wrapping paper…and lets not forget, for not declaring his actual home in his constituancy as his first home…exactly like…………..Jaqui Smith
(Report comment)
I wish this issue would go away, but it is the MPs themselves who are dragging their heals.
Pay up and apologise is not good enough. Cheats should not be seen to prosper.
Jaqui Smith punitive punishment meted out by a committee of just five labour MPs and one Tory MP. Their punishment! ‘Apologise to the House’. She did apologise to the House (full of other cheats) then took her seat as if nothing had ever happened.
She, along with many MPs on all sides. are guilty of fraud and should be prosecuted by British law.
Can anyone guilty of fraud in future just apologise and retain their ill-gotten gains? What precedent does this set?
It is a very sad reflection on our democracy and we need a complete clear out – Regretfully, this issue will just not go away. It must not be allowed to do so.
(Report comment)
What do you think of the proposed new rules Don.
I completely agree with all of them…only a shame they can’t be implemented immediately.
Our MP seems a bit worried that his girlfriend may loose her job, but thems the shakes.
(she could take him to an industrial tribunal for unfair dismissal – I wonder if he would try to claim back THAT expense)
(Report comment)
Yes! The expenses fiddle continues – No prosecutions and now they are going to start winging about the recommended changes.
One of my sons was recently given three days notice to quit his job – MPs family members will have five years to serve their notices – I wish everyone could be guaranteed five years work.
The saga will continue for years.
(Report comment)
Already there are MPs winging about the leaked Kelly report. Harriet Harman (Lab), said she thought it was unfair on MPs wife’s and family members to lose their employment, how does she think the rest of the people feel who are losing not only their jobs, but their homes?
And the poor wife’s and families of MPs have five years to sort things out. That in real terms, means guaranteed employment for five years; then, some say they will, at the end of that five year period sue their employers (MPs) for unfair dismissal. However, this will not wash, because these positions were never advertised, they were in effect, family perks.
I shall continue to try and keep the MPs scandals in the public domain, unless those at Westminster do what is needed, bring the guilty to book.
Next on the agenda should be MEPs and the ‘Top Cats’ the local public employees, some on over £3000 a week – What a very sad, unjust state of affairs.
I do so hope that our MP Andrew Turner will vote in favour of the Kelly report in its entirety; I would expect nothing less.
(Report comment)
David Curry, (Tory) the MP who heads the committee responsible for policing Commons expenses, has claimed almost £30,000 for a second home that his wife has banned him from staying in.
What chance have we got to put an end to this corruption?
All MPs should – but they won’t – Hang their heads in shame.
(Report comment)
Driver 57. Wrote on the ‘Turbine’ thread.
As Pete rightly wrote. You should use the correct ‘Thread’.
You must be in the know if you are aware of the MPs holiday arrangements; I can’t compete with that. However, you should direct your criticisms through ‘Letters to the Editor’ of the CP’. You do realize that you would have to give your name and address, (no nom de plumes). I do so hope that you have the courage of your conviction.
I would just point out that if you think (£19.000
a year) plus all the freebies is inadequate, I do feel it time that you lived in the real world;
also remember that both receive salaries.
I look forward to reading your letter in the CP:-)
(Report comment)
Schadenfreude? No just very sad that our MP has
had to apologise again – Will there be more
revelation, more errors and more apologies?
Time will tell.
Time to take stock Andrew; time to reorganize.
(Report comment)
The County press didn’t publish my letter. Maybe you’re in the know there?
As for £19,000 a year, a relative of mine (age 23) just started work as a teacher. Her pay is £24,000 a year and that’s just for starters! If that’s the going rate for a new inexperienced teacher then Mr Turner’s partner would seem to me to be a bargain.
I note you still seem to be smearing him. WHo have you voted for in past elections?
The Mp’s expense claims have been examined in detail going back five years. If the best you can do is ask about a headboard then my guess is Turner is clean.
(Report comment)
Driver 57,
I do not make the news – I do not make mistakes in my accounts – I do not employ an accountant.
A teacher, inexperience, is qualified to teach.
(Perhaps! A degree in at least one subject.)
And whilst only conjecture, the teacher is far more qualified than most MPs Aides. Teachers, also undertake years of study and they fully deserve all they get; with very few perks!
I am not smearing anyone; our MPs are quite capable of doing that for themselves.
Who do I vote for? Well, I vote for the person and not the party; if there are no candidates that I feel suitable, which is usually the case, I do not vote.
I suggest that you keep submitting your letters to the CP, I am sure the editor will consider your letters, and if they meet the required standard, they may get published.
(Report comment)
Driver 57,
Obviously you do not keep up with the hews. I think you should rewrite your recent ‘Post’ above.
My Post beginning (Schadenfreude?) was written after I had been made aware of today’s news.
(Report comment)
Thank you Andrew for your Xmas greetings by email – A belated Merry Xmas to you and yours.
I think it a very practical and economical way of communicating. If this method was adopted by all MPs and Peers it would safe £1000s in postage costs,
especially, when the costs of postage stamps are being increased yet again.
Happy 2010 to you and your staff.
We must always agree to disagree.
(Report comment)
Andrew Turner MP recently wrote:
quote[The amounts being spent by unelected quangos alone represent over £3,500 per Island household. These bodies make decisions that profoundly affect the lives of Islanders, yet they have no democratic mandate or accountability. If we don’t like their decisions we cannot vote them out.]
unquote.
Is this not the same for the members of the House of Lords? All appointed and none elected.
Peter (I’m in charge) Mandelson, Alan Sugar, Glynis Kinnock; do they not form part of an unelected quango? If we don’t like their decisions we cannot vote them out and who voted them in?
It is high time that they all got the order of the boot.
We must never forget the Right (? Honourable)
Mr Martin.
(Report comment)
It has been reported that over 200 MPs are refusing to pay back what they have
been ordered to do so by Sir Thomas Legg.
Some are discretely trying to find loopholes in the law just to wriggle out of paying.
When will this sleazy scandal end? It will end, just has soon as the rot has been cut from the apple; when they all pay their full dues and admit their guilt or their forgetfulness:-)
To his credit, our MP Andrew Turner, has always paid up when irregularities have come to light.
If it was you or me, who had been ordered to pay, we would be given one or more of the following options:
Refer the case to a court, which would have the power to increase the debt by 50%.
Issue a court judgement to restrict us from obtaining credit, loans and even a mortgage.
Issue us with a distress warrant and seize goods.
A court order could be issued to clamp your vehicle.
Obviously you would have several days to appeal:-)
Laws for us and laws for them; it’s always been like that. Still not one prosecution and ex Home Secretary (Miss J Smith) is being elevated to the House of Lords. She will be in good company with Martin and Archer.
The Honourable House is becoming more like Parkhurst every day.
(Report comment)
http://www.backtheban.com
I know Andrew will not sign up, but I would be very grateful if he would give us his reasons.
Sorry, to stray a little off the thread, but there could be a possible link.
(Report comment)
Now into 2010, and as yet, I note that there has been no prosecutions.
We can’t suspend the guilty ones (It’s within their rules) like local Councils appear to do, or we would have to call a General Election before May, because that would leave a glut of empty seats on both sides of the House;, it would look like Friday afternoon every day of week.
And how would they conduct the business of the house without any party leaders or a Mr Speaker?
And no doubt, all the MPs standing down at the next General Election, for whatever reason, will all be being paid their re-settlement grants; unless!
(Report comment)
“It’s within their rules”
In which case, it is the rules that need changing. Which of us would not take advantage of a generous allowance scheme, if we were lucky enough to enjoy one? A few members (as ever) have spoiled it for the rest by testing it to destruction, but I don’t think our MP is among them.
(Report comment)
But it is they themselves who make the rules and it is, up to now, only them you can change them.
Our MP (or his partner) is guilty of some sloppy book keeping. If this is not the case why is he forever apologising?
It is obvious from media reports, that he was not running a very ‘happy ship’ during one period. Hence the costs to the tax payer of the tribunal case.
I am please to note that one MP is to be deprived of his resettlement allowance – Many more should follow. But where are the police? Are the all queuing for Knighthoods?
How can we have have disgraced members of Parliament still holding office; these same people who help in the making of our laws and most will be organising the next election?
What a farce!
(Report comment)
“why is he forever apologising?”
Because he probably feels a bit uncomfortable about the whole thing, as would we if all our affairs were made public.
Are you really saying that you wouldn’t have claimed your entitlement if you were an MP?
(Report comment)
Sorry – that should have been a reply to Don at 2:39
(Report comment)
I am delighted that the Daily Telegraph informed the public of all the sleaze within our Government. Without this knowledge we would still be being ripped off – Left, right and centre.
Andrew has apologised several times, and this is to his credit, but surely you all know the reasons for his apologies.
May I respectfully suggest, that those newcomers to this ‘Thread’ start at the very beginning; and as Julie Andrews said many times, ” It’s a very good place to start”:-)
(Report comment)
“newcomers”
If you mean me, Don, I think you’ll find me at Comment 2.. :-)
(Report comment)
Yes! Got you logged James P.
I’d like to see more interest being shown in this topic.
Our democracy should be on par with the NHS -The best in the world. Our democracy has been severely tainted by the sleaze and corruption within our Government and that includes ‘That ‘Other place’ the House of Lords.
I feel it’s high time this resting place for ex MPs, Bishops and the like, should be scrapped and a democratically elected chamber formed.
As people become more educated and are thinking for themselves the Bishops are fast losing their flocks. ‘God is good’ – Take the earthquake in Haiti has one example. ‘Nature works in mysterious ways.’
(Report comment)
“As people become more educated”
Are you sure about that? :-)
I’m not sure I dare comment on the rest!
(Report comment)
Help me out here Mr Smith. Are you saying the people of Haiti were let down by God or that the earthquake was God’s way of reducing the population?
As for the Lords, it’s indefensible but seems to work most of the time. Blair said he’d abolish it, then didn’t. The time for it to go has now passed.
The Mp’s know the Lords is their ticket to prosperity in old age. And a good way of keeping the taxpayer cash flowing long after the electorate has ousted them.
(Report comment)
I am an atheist; that is my belief, and I do not want to convert anyone. so I shall not go into why
all the others religious ones want to give them their Gods.
House of Lords is outdated and it’s a pity Blair did not do what he promised. But he has proved to be a real jerk, and a very wealthy one at that.
All people should retire at seventy, unless your a teacher, or work in the public service, then fifty seems the average.
The earthquake was caused by the movement of plates in one of the earth’s faults. Now believe
the scientist or the Bishops; your choice!
Will God put things right in Haiti? I do so hope he can. However, things do not look too good at this time.
(Report comment)
At last Legg concludes his report at a cost of over a £Million and some MPs are still whining. ‘They’ve been found out, pay up’.
The sooner the next General election is over with the better; however, there will still be many familiar faces to be seen in the House, but at least they now know that the public now knows that the majority of MPs have been making dodgy expense claims in the past.
Not just dishonest MPs but a system that was started by Mrs Thatcher many years ago, to repress pay rises for MPs and to allow MPs to make up their short fall in pay through a corrupt expenses system; the majority of MPs got on the band wagon.
The next new Government will not be without many of the old rouges, but at least they know that we know – It will take a decade or two for MPs to gain the full trust of the British electorate.
Will there be any prosecutions? I doubt it very much; birds of a feather stick together.
(Report comment)
Prosecutions at last – I am surprised that the DPP
have had the bottle.
Again they say they are going to deny the charges against them. Can they not just accept that they did wrong.
Appeal vigorously they cry! Who’s going to pay the costs of these appeals?
What about Miss J Smith? Many more appear to have been let off the hook, why? This sordid mess will drag on for decades.
(Report comment)
I not despite the dodgy claims of Mp’s of all parties it’s only LABOUR Mp’s facing prosecution.
Sadly for us the dodgy three no believe parliamentary privelege protects them from the law! You really couldn’t make this up. Caught seemingly bang to rights they now believe they are ABOVE THE LAW! Mr Smith, you should target your efforts at the Labour party and insist that these people are taken to court. The former Home Sec Jackie Smith should join them in my opinion.
(Report comment)
Shobba,
I do agree.
I do feel that Miss J Smith, along with many others should be prosecuted and their golden handshakes, whether they have been sacked or reign should be stopped.
What other criminal would be given a £30.00 farewell gift?
I note that four have been charged, but not one of them has been arrested, fingerprinted or DNA samples taken. Yes! This proves once again the MPs and Peers are above the law.
Ironically, instead of moving on and putting the whole sordid mess behind us they continue to whine and try to riddle – there will be more revelations to come out.
(Report comment)
Sorry; for £30.00 read £30.000.
(Report comment)
Conservative peer Lord Ashcroft: has been votng in the House of Lords, yet does not pay taxes like the rest of us.
His money has been and is still being used to help Tory candidates in marginal seats.
Cameron has known about this tax dodger for ten years and as never said a word on the issue.
It is obvious how Ashcroft became a Peer.
I know there are ‘Non-Doms’ in all of our political parties – Just how more corrupt and sleazy can we become? Is there no end to it all?
(Report comment)
Still waging your one man class war? He may not pay tax like the rest of us (on his overseas earnings) but he sure as hell doesn’t EARN like the rest of us! I think like him, if any of us had substantial overseas income we would take the best advice and that currently is to become a ‘non-dom’ like Ashcroft, Labour and Liberal peers. They are not breaking the law – a law Labour could’ve changed anytime this past 12-13 years if they didn’t like it.
(Report comment)
The fact that he says he will return to ‘Live In’ status and pay taxes like therest of us if the Tories win is enough to make me vote for anybody else
(Report comment)
Rewarding people with peerages, other honours and jobs for the boys, with political donations,is immoral, corrupt and does border on criminal (Bribery).
The sooner we get rid of all these practices the better.
When I see the members of the House of Lords in their ermine and fancy dress. I just wonder what do other civilized countries think of us?
(Report comment)